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Some people apparently need to vent. It's also reassuring to them to hear from a bunch of total strangers how they should be so proud of themselves. My sister and both of my adult kids have left the Church. They're happy and we all have a good relationship with one another. None of them wasted a moment of their lives commiserating with a bunch of like-minded cry-babies. Life's too short to spend it wallowing in self-pity over the fact that you no longer believe something you once did, and trying to blame it on somebody else.
Have you seen that site too? I give you credit for mixing it up with apostates.
I don't think he is trying to pry people away, he said he wanted them to understand why he left. Understanding doesn't have to mean agreement.
He doesn't link them to anti-Mormon sites. If they clicked on the ad, they were sent to LDS approved sources for some of the controversial aspects explained by the Church.
If I left and people wanted to know why I left I would just tell them.There is no need for subterfuge if that is your motivation.Targeted ads that have no obvious personal connection to the sender provide no understanding about the senders motivations for leaving.
You said previously they would get the fake ads,click on the link,and 'learn the truth'.Its manipulation designed to get someone to join their new team and quit their old team through deception rather than just laying out their case in an honest manner.If the information is on an LDS approved site its obviously not a secret anyway.
I also disagree with your premise that 'no good Mormon would EVER click on an anti-Mormon link'.Thats like saying that republicans never read articles by democrats or that atheists should stay off the forum because they might get converted.
If I left and people wanted to know why I left I would just tell them.There is no need for subterfuge if that is your motivation.Targeted ads that have no obvious personal connection to the sender provide no understanding about the senders motivations for leaving.
You said previously they would get the fake ads,click on the link,and 'learn the truth'.Its manipulation designed to get someone to join their new team and quit their old team through deception rather than just laying out their case in an honest manner.If the information is on an LDS approved site its obviously not a secret anyway.
I also disagree with your premise that 'no good Mormon would EVER click on an anti-Mormon link'.Thats like saying that republicans never read articles by democrats or that atheists should stay off the forum because they might get converted.
That is his premise, not mine. I am not defending him, just clarifying what he said. You can't tell people something they refuse to hear.
If he said all this stuff in the CES letter - this is something they won't read, so they don't know what he is talking about.
It is manipulation, yes. That is what the article is discussing. We're already manipulated by corporations and political agendas and so forth, and this is a new frontier, targeted by family or friends.
Have you seen that site too? I give you credit for mixing it up with apostates.
I've been on a lot of anti-Mormon websites over the years. What I find most interesting about these sites is that they invariably describe how a former Mormon inadvertently stumbled upon some incident in the Church's history which had been whitewashed, and was shaken to the core by this bit of knowledge. That information sparks an interest in the subject and the floodgates open. No, the Church has not been entirely honest about its history. Yes, it has been guilty of whitewashing the details -- presumably because some well-meaning leader has wanted to spare us all the pain of finding out that our previous leaders weren't perfect. Well, duh.
There is no church on earth without a few skeletons in its closet. I actually started out believing the whitewashed version, was surprised to hear (over a period of many years) the "hidden, deep, dark truth" Mormons were supposedly not ever to know about, and took it upon myself to continue my search to find out the actual facts. More often than not, I ended up discovering that those who "exposed" the whitewashing had a hidden agenda, as well, and had overcompensated by tweaking the facts just enough to shock and upset the unsuspecting Mormon who naively assumed that everything had happened exactly the way the Sunday School version of the events said it had. Fortunately, I was raised by parents who had never discouraged me from questioning and doubting. I never believed I was doing anything wrong by considering points of view other than those I heard in an LDS setting.
My previous paragraph, of course, pertains to the history of the Church. When it comes to the doctrines, the situation is a bit different. I post on another forum and have noticed something that has genuinely intrigued me. On that forum, there are several individuals who were once practicing Mormons who have since left the Church. When they leave, suddenly the doctrines they preached with great fervor for years seem to completely change. All of a sudden they find a completely new vocabulary to describe what they once believed, and you wouldn't even recognize the doctrine as one they passionate embraced two years earlier. Its not that the doctrine itself has changed. It's that they stopped believing in it and feel compelled, for whatever reason, to now represent it in the most negative light possible. Maybe this is just human nature; I don't know.
I don't know much about Mormons but it seems they have a saying "broke my shelf." Whatever was in that CES letter broke a few shelves.
LOL! I've never even heard that saying before! Here's the funny thing about the CES letter. Several years ago when it first came out, my hairdresser (who was, at that time, LDS) asked me what I thought of it. I'd heard of it, but I hadn't actually read it at that time. What I discovered when I did read it was that it was was a whole collection of every negative aspect of its origins and history, presented as an honest inquiry and search for information. The crazy thing was that almost every point the author raised had been addressed years earlier. He wasn't coming up with anything new at all. He was just assembling all of the criticisms of years past in a single document. I couldn't help but wonder how someone could have been a member of the Church for as long as the author of the CES letter claimed to have been and not have heard both the arguments and the rebuttals a million times before. I don't think there was anything at all noble about his motives in writing the letter. It was just the work of someone with an an to grind, who was perhaps looking for his 15 minutes of fame.
That is his premise, not mine. I am not defending him, just clarifying what he said. You can't tell people something they refuse to hear.
If he said all this stuff in the CES letter - this is something they won't read, so they don't know what he is talking about.
I .
His premise is BS.If people want to know why you left a church they will ask you and you can tell them.If they don't want to know they are under no obligation to listen to your reasons for leaving.No one is obligated to read the CES letter either.
Plenty of Mormons have read the CES Letter.I've read the CES Letter.....have you read the CES Letter?It doesn't contain any super secret heretofore unknown or unasked questions.Most of its contents people have been arguing about for over one hundred fifty years.I don't in general find members of the church to be as ignorant of church history as many anti-Lds think they are.Pretty much everything in the CES Letter I was aware of BEFORE I joined the church and yet here I am.Do you really think everyone who has read the CES Letter is going to run screaming from the church and suddenly join ' apostates r us .com' so that they can all pat each other on the back about how brave and smart they are now?
It's pretty clear you think your church is true.Have you read the collection of books authored by Bart Erhman?Have you read the 8 zillion threads that atheists have posted on this site pointing out the many problems from a historical perspective inherent with biblical history or biblical authorship?If not why not?Many of them can make a pretty good case that all religion is BS.
His premise is BS.If people want to know why you left a church they will ask you and you can tell them.If they don't want to know they are under no obligation to listen to your reasons for leaving.No one is obligated to read the CES letter either.
Plenty of Mormons have read the CES Letter.I've read the CES Letter.....have you read the CES Letter?It doesn't contain any super secret heretofore unknown or unasked questions.Most of its contents people have been arguing about for over one hundred fifty years.I don't in general find members of the church to be as ignorant of church history as many anti-Lds think they are.Pretty much everything in the CES Letter I was aware of BEFORE I joined the church and yet here I am.Do you really think everyone who has read the CES Letter is going to run screaming from the church and suddenly join ' apostates r us .com' so that they can all pat each other on the back about how brave and smart they are now?
It's pretty clear you think your church is true.Have you read the collection of books authored by Bart Erhman?Have you read the 8 zillion threads that atheists have posted on this site pointing out the many problems from a historical perspective inherent with biblical history or biblical authorship?If not why not?Many of them can make a pretty good case that all religion is BS.
I have not read the CES letter. I read some bullet points and I agree most of it is stuff people have known for a long time.
Though, I did not remember that JS married women that were already married and a few other things. And I don't want this to come out wrongly like I think that marrying 14 year olds is 'ok', but that is sort of 'meh' to me given the times.
But for me the thing is this. Were I a Mormon, and discover that the founder of my religion has this much 'baggage' to put it mildly, that would cause me to question, so CES letter aside, however that came to my attention it would be hard to swallow.
And there is more than that. I'm not trying to get into all of it that has already been hashed out like the thing about black people and all of that, but the Church has had some major policy issues and if you tell me that prophets are getting revelations from God, but they keep changing, often to fit with human laws, I can't believe these 'Prophets' anymore. And if I can't believe them, how can I believe the Church?
And when the Church keeps lying, how can I keep believing them?
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My sister and both of my adult kids have left the Church. They're happy and we all have a good relationship with one another. None of them wasted a moment of their lives commiserating with a bunch of like-minded cry-babies. Life's too short to spend it wallowing in self-pity over the fact that you no longer believe something you once did, and trying to blame it on somebody else.
