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And I guess I owe you a big thank you for giving me permission not to post my personal information?
I never put anyone on Ignore, because there aren't any posters who don't sometimes say something worth hearing, but I'm not going to be responding to you anymore. That worked for awhile, and I decided to give you another chance and respond, thinking we could come to some kind of a truce.
Which turned out to be a mistake.
And an I supposed to thank you for giving me a chance?
Good ques, Ozzy.
Life is a dance with people.
If I turned someone off to something that I 'wanted' them to be open to, to try, to attend,
to go see...(let's take it away from the hot God topic)...then, I was doing the wrong dance with them.
No matter my intentions, or the subject matter...
if I turned them off and further away, even worse...
It is 'me'...I have not learned to vibe with that person. No matter the right 'message'...
I was saying it incorrectly for them.
Sometimes vibing with a person means to say nothing for years...sometimes it is to be serious...
sometimes it is to be excited...sometimes it is to be intellectual.
If it is me that desires something of that person ...it is my job to be sensitive to that person...
what makes that person receptive....it is more about them than me...and what
"I think".
It's like making love...do you rush into it with no foreplay?
Or do you fashion each evening, each movement with their mood?
If a Christian intends to effect another...they must get in touch with what finesse means, what charm means, how to persuade another entirely different than yourself to want what you want them to want.
Be still...learn how to touch another human being's heart...if you would like to draw them to anything
you'd like them to try.
I think you're reading an awfully lot into that, but you're entitled to your own interpretation.
Your annoyed? I don't care. Any more than you care that your posts annoy many of us atheists.
Do you honestly think that anything written explicitly would have even become a popular enough writing to be considered scripture? Even if that was what they believed, the writing would have been pretty dull, and so it never would have been included. So it never survived. You're looking for something that just doesn't exist. All we have is literature.
Good ques, Ozzy.
Life is a dance with people.
If I turned someone off to something that I 'wanted' them to be open to, to try, to attend,
to go see...(let's take it away from the hot God topic)...then, I was doing the wrong dance with them.
No matter my intentions, or the subject matter...
if I turned them off and further away, even worse...
It is 'me'...I have not learned to vibe with that person. No matter the right 'message'...
I was saying it incorrectly for them.
Sometimes vibing with a person means to say nothing for years...sometimes it is to be serious...
sometimes it is to be excited...sometimes it is to be intellectual.
If it is me that desires something of that person ...it is my job to be sensitive to that person...
what makes that person receptive....it is more about them than me...and what
"I think".
It's like making love...do you rush into it with no foreplay?
Or do you fashion each evening, each movement with their mood?
If a Christian intends to effect another...they must get in touch with what finesse means, what charm means, how to persuade another entirely different than yourself to want what you want them to want.
Be still...learn how to touch another human being's heart...if you would like to draw them to anything
you'd like them to try.
But I'm not so sure we are supposed to draw them into religious belief. That is something almost existing in another realm. I would rather allow people to be free. God sometimes draws people into the wilderness.
And I don't see how anyone can believe someone is angry at a Theist for allegedly driving them into atheism, while they are supposed to be so thankful and appreciative to an Atheist for doing the same. I'm not an idiot. I just don't buy it.
Do you honestly think that anything written explicitly would have even become a popular enough writing to be considered scripture? Even if that was what they believed, the writing would have been pretty dull, and so it never would have been included. So it never survived. You're looking for something that just doesn't exist. All we have is literature.
I'm glad that I'm annoying the right people.
And, of course, that is one of main criticisms that many of us have -- the bible seems to be intentionally vague. Unless it has to do with things like killing children.
That is a version of religion that I no longer care about. And it's frustrating when so many atheists on this forum want to engage me in that topic.
How many times do I need to explain it to them??
But what I DO believe in is the hell that is created in THIS world, and that is what I believe the Bible teaches, just as it is taught in Buddhism. And that is something that everyone, religious or atheist, can truthfully fear happening to them. Religious faith (whichever kind you choose) can help people with that. And people who are truly helped are a benefit to the world. So I'm sorry that so many atheists can't seem to see any good in Theistic religion.
You have to understand, Ozzy mate, that when half the Christians we come across seem to have their own personal brand of pick and mix Christianity, we can't be expected to know each one intimately and we will occasionally question some christian dogma or belief that they may have discarded. A literal Hell is one of the more frequent Dogmas that some Christians discard.
But if they do so, they ought to know that it one step towards the more holistic disbelief that atheists have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
I'm not offended at all, because I know where you are coming from, and I hear you clearly because I've been there. I mean only the best for you when I say, PLEASE go down the road you are following. I can't tell you the road to take. You will only know what is down the road if you follow it yourself.
I say that to anyone, theist or atheist.
It may not make much sense, but I'd say 'don't go down any particular road - use Googlemap and look at all the roads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
All of them.
And it is the same one that the preachers speak about. They refer to it all the time, the one that exists in the real world inside of a person. The only difference is that they extend it to a supernatural world beyond this one, in addition to the one you believe in. They talk about both, literally. Because real people and events are the ONLY way that most people are able to explain and understand spiritual concepts.
I went back and read a bunch of Chick Tract fundamentalist comic books. They were teaching the same concepts that are probably taught in Buddhism. But the Christian fundamentalist teaching is actually something like: BuddhismPlus. To me, the Chick comics are teaching true things, depending on how you interpret them. No one would believe them if they weren't true on some level.
I read the gospel story this way because that is what Paul suggested: Christ is "inside" you. Which means that the crucifixion and resurrection story is also inside you.
Ozzy, you have left me behind. Jack Chick tracts are true in a sort of internalised -metaphorical holistic spiritual way? I can't get my head around this. Nor what it is that you are telling us when you post here or why you think atheists are wrong in seeing all that stuff as human thought. Because if you don't I have no idea why you are arguing with us at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
That's difficult because to me it is deeply imbedded in ALL of the Bible. But there is chapter 33 of Ezekiel which is where I first got the hint that death in the Bible was a metaphor for spiritual death.
The story of Adam and Eve is pretty blatant too. I don't understand how anyone could not see it. Did Adam "die" on the day he ate the fruit? Or did he live for hundreds of years afterwards.
Please don't be so blind to this. It's annoying and frustrating.
It may be the 'concrete' thinking that Mystic often twits me about, but it can't be ruled out that the Eden story is a made -up story with a plot full of holes and we need not believe any of it, because if it was true, it has to be a stitch -up by God. It is one that atheists have been pointing out for some time, just as we ( ) have been pointing out that Judas should be a hero and saint because if he hadn't played his part, salvation would not have happened.
Christians, in all my experience, have simply ignored these points, but it can't be ruled out that they just poorly thought out invented stories. And for a long time, I have translated 'Metaphorically true' as meaning 'Not true at all'.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-07-2019 at 12:12 AM..
You say you're in the trenches for gay rights. What does that mean? That's a pretty simple question.
She supports Gay (same -sex) rights, is what I take it to mean. I see that as a positive thing. Contrary to how it may appear at times, I like to look for things that we (posters on either side) agree on rather than disagree. The areas of disagreement sometimes can get blown out of all proportion.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-07-2019 at 12:04 AM..
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