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Can you come again? Lets see what's your evidence, and a "strong" one, too.
Let's be fair and reasonable here. Let's try anyway...
Would you not agree that the absence of evidence or proof that something exists is in itself rather compelling reason to conclude that thing does not exist? Seriously.
Say for example your neighbor insists there is a monster under your house. You don't really have good reason to believe them in the first place, because there is no evidence that causes you to believe such a thing, but no matter. You decide to check anyway.
Your neighbor tells you the monster is in the crawl space toward the front of your house. So, with flashlight, you go down there to shed light in that area. No sign of a monster. No evidence whatsoever. Then your neighbor tells you the monster is actually in the back part of the crawl space. To be a good neighbor, you go down and search the entire crawl space with an even better flashlight. Nothing!
Then your neighbor tries to explain to you that you can't actually see the monster. You won't be able to find evidence or proof the monster exists no matter how hard you look. You have got to have faith. Simply believe your neighbor, no matter the fact you cannot find any evidence or proof the monster exists. Your neighbor has a book with pictures of the monster and everything!
Now then, what is your response when after you let your neighbor know you have not been able to find ANY proof the monster exists, your neighbor tells you to prove it.
Seriously. How does anyone prove something does not exist other than by way of recognizing there is no evidence or proof that something exists? Why should anyone bother to prove something doesn't exists if there is no evidence that something exists?
Or say your wife suspects you of having an affair with someone who does not exist...
Let's be fair and reasonable here. Let's try anyway...
Would you not agree that the absence of evidence or proof that something exists is in itself rather compelling reason to conclude that thing does not exist? Seriously.
Say for example your neighbor insists there is a monster under your house. You don't really have good reason to believe them in the first place, because there is no evidence that causes you to believe such a thing, but no matter. You decide to check anyway.
Your neighbor tells you the monster is in the crawl space toward the front of your house. So, with flashlight, you go down there to shed light in that area. No sign of a monster. No evidence whatsoever. Then your neighbor tells you the monster is actually in the back part of the crawl space. To be a good neighbor, you go down and search the entire crawl space with an even better flashlight. Nothing!
Then your neighbor tries to explain to you that you can't actually see the monster. You won't be able to find evidence or proof the monster exists no matter how hard you look. You have got to have faith. Simply believe your neighbor, no matter the fact you cannot find any evidence or proof the monster exists. Your neighbor has a book with pictures of the monster and everything!
Now then, what is your response when after you let your neighbor know you have not been able to find ANY proof the monster exists, your neighbor tells you to prove it.
Seriously. How does anyone prove something does not exist other than by way of recognizing there is no evidence or proof that something exists? Why should anyone bother to prove something doesn't exists if there is no evidence that something exists?
Or say your wife suspects you of having an affair with someone who does not exist...
All this effort because you refuse to accept that what DOES exist is God. You conveniently forget that you begin your quest with the presumption that EVERYTHING that does exist is NOT evidence of God without any proof whatsoever that it isn't.
All this effort because you refuse to accept that what DOES exist is God. You conveniently forget that you begin your quest with the presumption that EVERYTHING that does exist is NOT evidence of God without any proof whatsoever that it isn't.
Not all that much effort...
Also not true and this has nothing to do with convenience. Please. So much for fair and reasonable.
I tried to address the common request to prove god does not exist. You refuse to accept this for whatever your reason(s), but why must you always infuse all this other nonsense? All this this thick rhetoric that you seem wanting to make your hallmark; "refuse," "quest" "presumption."
Lack of evidence and/or proof is just that. All that exists is evidence that all exists. What's so hard to understand about this?
I mean from a simple, unemotional, intelligent, adult, undramatic, objective standpoint?
Also not true and this has nothing to do with convenience. Please. So much for fair and reasonable.
I tried to address the common request to prove god does not exist. You refuse to accept this for whatever your reason(s), but why must you always infuse all this other nonsense? All this this thick rhetoric that you seem wanting to make your hallmark; "refuse," "quest" "presumption."
Lack of evidence and/or proof is just that. All that exists is evidence that all exists. What's so hard to understand about this?
I mean from a simple, unemotional, intelligent, adult, undramatic, objective standpoint?
If you are actually that obtuse, I have been wasting my time trying to reach your intellect. What is the definitive MEASURE you use to decide that something is NOT evidence of God? Absent such a measure, your search for evidence of God is presumptive and bogus.
However, the difference I think is, in the Islamic heaven which DOES have Jews, Christians and other faiths (Quran 2:62), there will be no obligation or pre-programming of us, to worship or pray.
In Judaism, anyone who is righteous goes to heaven. Non-Jews are bound by a code of seven laws, adherence to which gets them into heaven.
Let's be fair and reasonable here. Let's try anyway...
Would you not agree that the absence of evidence or proof that something exists is in itself rather compelling reason to conclude that thing does not exist? Seriously.
Obviously a very strong logical notion, and I won't outright deny or reject this notion; however, it's not ALWAYS true.
First, in your support.
A woman claims that she was raped and the rapist came inside her.
A DNA test is done, no evidence of his semen is found inside her. This means, at least he did not come inside her, perhaps she is lying. It's a possible acquisition to trap the man, who actually may not have raped her.
However, there is another angle to this notion.
Absence of evidence is not always the evidence of absence.
As I stated this to you before, 1000 years ago, there was no evidence that oxygen exists. Does that mean oxygen did not exist then?
500 years ago, billions of people would firmly believe that man does not, and will never have, the ability to land on the moon because there is no evidence.
Does that mean, man did not and does not have the ability to land on the moon?
So, just because there is no evidence, does not always or necessarily mean that it's existence can be outright denied.
Quote:
Say for example your neighbor insists there is a monster under your house. You don't really have good reason to believe them in the first place, because there is no evidence that causes you to believe such a thing, but no matter. You decide to check anyway.
Your neighbor tells you the monster is in the crawl space toward the front of your house. So, with flashlight, you go down there to shed light in that area. No sign of a monster. No evidence whatsoever. Then your neighbor tells you the monster is actually in the back part of the crawl space. To be a good neighbor, you go down and search the entire crawl space with an even better flashlight. Nothing!
Then your neighbor tries to explain to you that you can't actually see the monster. You won't be able to find evidence or proof the monster exists no matter how hard you look. You have got to have faith. Simply believe your neighbor, no matter the fact you cannot find any evidence or proof the monster exists. Your neighbor has a book with pictures of the monster and everything!
Now then, what is your response when after you let your neighbor know you have not been able to find ANY proof the monster exists, your neighbor tells you to prove it.
Seriously. How does anyone prove something does not exist other than by way of recognizing there is no evidence or proof that something exists? Why should anyone bother to prove something doesn't exists if there is no evidence that something exists?
Or say your wife suspects you of having an affair with someone who does not exist
It doesn't work this way.
You got the entire picture wrong.
You will need to scrape this entire notion out of your brain and start with an empty slate.
You already know exactly what a bear looks like, so when you see one, you will know it.
The method you are using is visual inspection. Or in other words, seeing is believing.
This does not apply to scenario of God.
You, me and none of us know what does God look like, so even if we see one, we perhaps wouldn't know if it's a God or an unknown specie that was not discovered before.
So, neither can we use visual inspection as a method to verify the existence of God NOR do we know what does a God look like.
See the problem with the bear analogy when you apply it on the existence of God?
Once you understand or at least agree with this, you will probably have a little bit ease in scrapping this methodology out of your brain when you demand "evidence of God".
For a bear, yes.
But for a God, neither can you describe what "Evidence of God" are you going to take, nor do you have the knowledge and ability to verify and validate that evidence.
Once you agree on this, we can move forward with the second portion of my answer to you.
Last edited by mensaguy; 06-07-2021 at 04:53 PM..
Reason: Removed eztra quote tag
But then isnt it also true that there is actually no hell for Jews, no matter what do they do?
I mean, what if a Jewish person does not adhere to even one of those 7 codes? Is there any hell fire for him in the Jewish doctrine?
The general idea (and I'm sure I am oversimplifying and getting details wrong, so apologies up front) is that after death the soul is judged. A small percentage of souls are on that fast track to God's eternal and unvarnished presence, which is cool, but most of us aren't there yet. So there is a period of "re-education" where we come to terms with who we are, and how we fell short. After a period of time, the remnants of those failings waste away and we are left in a spiritual place ready to move to God's presence. A very, very small number are beyond that re-education.
That will take us into a different path. But just to touch up on this.
If you are already guaranteed to go to Heaven for good, then why don’t you pray to God to put an end to your life?
Or why don’t you commit suicide if you already know that you will enter into Heaven for good, and there is no hell for you, guaranteed?
Why live here, pay taxes, go through disease and slow dying process?
Heaven is eternal bliss, so you won’t miss your dogs or family or friends because there is no grief in an eternal bliss scenario. Why don’t you go there? Why live here anymore?
The reality is, you won’t do it because YOU REALLY DONT KNOW that you are going to Heaven. NONE of us either. And that’s a fact!
IMO, Your believe in your own faith (a guaranteed spot in heaven) is not strong enough that you dare to put it to test.
I do know. God has confirmed it to me, personally. The kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. Even so, if I am faithless, He is faithful.
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