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What Jesus ACTUALLY said is, "Ask the father for ANYTHING in my name and he will grant it." As I said, there isn't any wiggle room in there for what Jesus defines as "anything". "Anything" means anything, Pleroo. Jesus doesn't set the parameters on what he wants to exclude, does he? I can't see any. Jesus doesn't say, "Ask for anything, except money to pay your bills, and healing, and a roof over your head when you're homeless. Oh, and make sure your will is in complete alignment with my father's and you aren't actively sinning in your life too." I don't see any of that in Jesus' simple statement, "Ask for anything". If Jesus meant to exclude certain things or include certain conditions then the gospels should read that way. The only condition Jesus imposes is to have faith you will get whatever you ask for and it will be done for you. It's in black and white right there, Pleroo:
It takes a particularly young or naive person to have faith you will actually get whatever you ask for, Thrill. That is not a particularly adult expectation so how likely is it that any adult would actually HAVE such total faith? I doubt that claiming it or faking it would count.
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This is a ridiculous statement on Nothing's part. Nobody is suggesting to pray for immortality. That's a far FAR cry from praying for a deathly sick child to be healed, which is EXACTLY what James in his epistle says you should do. But how many parents have you read of that did just that--prayed for a beloved child on the strength of Jesus' and James' promises and got nothing? 303guy right here on this forum is one of those parents. Honestly, Pleroo I shouldn't have to be explaining all this to you. You know this already. Praying for a sick child doesn't bring healing. Fact. So what Nothing is saying is "Don't pray for ridiculous things like living forever. But when you do pray, make sure you and God are in complete alignment with his will far as what you're praying for." How in hell are we supposed to know what God's will is when he doesn't even communicate with us. Good4Nothing is all wet.
Prayer is always answered. Sometimes the answer is "No."
We are like a bunch of spoiled three year olds. When we like that answer, we jump around and herald the miracle. when we do not like the answer we have a tantrum and swear God does not exist. Or we say "I hate you"
When our kids said that when they did not get their way, I always laughed at them. I wonder whether God laughs at us when we do it.
It takes a particularly young or naive person to have faith you will actually get whatever you ask for, Thrill. That is not a particularly adult expectation so how likely is it that any adult would actually HAVE such total faith? I doubt that claiming it or faking it would count. Sour grapes.
The bottom line seems to be that everyone (other than, as you say, the young and naive) know that prayers are not unfailingly granted - despite what the gospel passages guarantee: not answered 'yes' or 'no' but the thing asked is given. it's even argued by the gospel apologists that the thing might not be in the best interest of the wisher, let alone somebody the wisher desires to have hit by a meteorite.
The point is not whether the passage requires interpretation. In order to even work, it needs small print. The point is whether what the Bible says is absurd and untrue. On the face of it, it is. So it is like the debate on slavery in the Bible. Despite the efforts to rewrite the Bible, it really shows no disapproval of slavery at all. Neither does it show any reservations about prayer; if you ask in faith, you will get it.
This (like slavery) is obviously unacceptable. The debate is really about whether one can interpret the problem out of the way, or whether it's a problem that makes the Bible - like those passages - unacceptable.
I say that if you interpret the passages out of the way, by saying this is nothing to do with God but with the mores of men, and granting prayer in fact works no differently to what would happen if you prayed to your cat (which, if you did it in Faith would give all that comfort and ability to deal with trouble that is really neither here nor there in the discussion), then you are ending up with no reason to believe that a god intervenes at all, which under the 'difference that makes no difference' dictum means: 'yet again - no reason to believe in Biblegod, at any rate'. And no reason to trust the Bible or grant it any respect as a guide to life.
It takes a particularly young or naive person to have faith you will actually get whatever you ask for, Thrill. That is not a particularly adult expectation so how likely is it that any adult would actually HAVE such total faith? I doubt that claiming it or faking it would count. Sour grapes.
I've always said Christians are the most naive gullible people on earth. They truly believe every single promise in the Bible, with the rare exceptions of a few in here like you, Mystic and Nothing4. Why do you think prosperity pimps are so rich?????? Do you think they got that way because Christians were too sharp to send their money to them for a miracle cloth that heals? Go on! "Jesus said it! I believe it! That settles it! That's all there is to it!"
Sour grapes???????? You're starting to sound like Ozzy now. What so silly about taking James 5 literally? Are you suggesting the Bible's promises cannot be trusted???????
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Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them [it] will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up.
Honestly, I don't get what's happening here. I point out what the Bible says in black and white--endless times. And Christians take me to task for misinterpreting or misrepresenting what the words clearly say in black and white. "Are you actually that naive, Thrillobyte, that Christians would believe that God would grant them literally ANYTHING they want?!
Well, don't shoot the messenger. That's what the Bible says God will do. I plainly don't see all these extra conditions and requirements written into Jesus' and James' language. It's Orwellian. So "Ask for anything and my father will grant it" really means "Don't ask for anything because my father will not grant it." That's what it boils down to.
This all started with one example. "Pray for your sick one and the Lord will make him well" Ironclad promise made by James. No misinterpreting it. That's EXACTLY what the words say. But the promise doesn't work. That's been proven millions upon millions of times. So Christian try to get around a failed promise in the Bible with a lot of "Yes, but..." Christians themselves are telling us, "Look, I agree. The promise doesn't work. Frankly, it's a lie. But there may be good reasons why it's not working. Maybe your will is not God's will. Maybe you have unconfessed sin in your life that prevents God from answering your prayer. Maybe you're too naive. Maybe God is answering your prayer, it's just NO!" Maybe this, maybe that. We could go on all day with the maybe's.
And at the end of the day one thing remains crystal clear: James' promise isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Honestly, I don't get what's happening here. I point out what the Bible says in black and white--endless times. And Christians take me to task for misinterpreting or misrepresenting what the words clearly say in black and white. "Are you actually that naive, Thrillobyte, that Christians would believe that God would grant them literally ANYTHING they want?!
Well, don't shoot the messenger. That's what the Bible says God will do. I plainly don't see all these extra conditions and requirements written into Jesus' and James' language. It's Orwellian. So "Ask for anything and my father will grant it" really means "Don't ask for anything because my father will not grant it." That's what it boils down to.
This all started with one example. "Pray for your sick one and the Lord will make him well" Ironclad promise made by James. No misinterpreting it. That's EXACTLY what the words say. But the promise doesn't work. That's been proven millions upon millions of times. So Christian try to get around a failed promise in the Bible with a lot of "Yes, but..." Christians themselves are telling us, "Look, I agree. The promise doesn't work. Frankly, it's a lie. But there may be good reasons why it's not working. Maybe your will is not God's will. Maybe you have unconfessed sin in your life that prevents God from answering your prayer. Maybe you're too naive. Maybe God is answering your prayer, it's just NO!" Maybe this, maybe that. We could go on all day with the maybe's.
And at the end of the day one thing remains crystal clear: James' promise isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
I've always said Christians are the most naive gullible people on earth. They truly believe every single promise in the Bible, with the rare exceptions of a few in here like you, Mystic and Nothing4. Why do you think prosperity pimps are so rich?????? Do you think they got that way because Christians were too sharp to send their money to them for a miracle cloth that heals? Go on! "Jesus said it! I believe it! That settles it! That's all there is to it!"
Sour grapes???????? You're starting to sound like Ozzy now. What so silly about taking James 5 literally? Are you suggesting the Bible's promises cannot be trusted???????
Are you turning into a heretic, Mystic?
A Christian heretic is NOT someone who questions or offers alternatives to the BELIEFS OF MEN ABOUT God, Thrill. A Christian heretic does NOT believe in the God who IS love that Jesus described and demonstrated unambiguously.
Prayer is always answered. Sometimes the answer is "No."
We are like a bunch of spoiled three year olds. When we like that answer, we jump around and herald the miracle. when we do not like the answer we have a tantrum and swear God does not exist. Or we say "I hate you"
When our kids said that when they did not get their way, I always laughed at them. I wonder whether God laughs at us when we do it.
Umm,HaveI got the wrong verse?
This is the best I could find
KJ:
"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son"
I'd interpret that as within human possibility (?)
Is there a verse in which Jesus promises literally anything?
Prayer is always answered. Sometimes the answer is "No."
We are like a bunch of spoiled three year olds. When we like that answer, we jump around and herald the miracle. when we do not like the answer we have a tantrum and swear God does not exist. Or we say "I hate you"
When our kids said that when they did not get their way, I always laughed at them. I wonder whether God laughs at us when we do it.
That would be your interpretation, which you have a valid right to. Not everybody thinks or believes like you do. And I would have hated to have been your kid. No one deserves to have their feelings laughed at. Enjoy your God.
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Do you think they got that way because Christians were too sharp to send their money to them for a miracle cloth that heals? 
Go on! "Jesus said it! I believe it! That settles it! That's all there is to it!" 
