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Old 04-08-2019, 09:00 AM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,685,411 times
Reputation: 19315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
Then how do these graph people explain the growth of non-denominational evangelical churches like Life Church? They just announced the opening of their 33rd location. Pretty good growth for a church that only started 21 years ago in a garage. I suspect they could grow faster if they'd go into debt. But they pay for all of their physical facilities in cash. I know hard core Christians will knock them for not preaching hellfire and damnation but they are reaching folks that would never step foot in those mainline denominations.

It's been interesting to watch their growth.
33 locations? Per an article from last September, they claimed 30 locations and 85,000 members. Now they have 33 locations? All right, let's say there's 100,000 members. That's less than 1/30th of 1% of the U.S. population. Statistically insignificant.

There are always exceptions to trends. When the economy booms, some people still get laid off. Smoking shortens life spans on average, but a few lifelong smokers will still live to ripe old ages. The United States added 27 million people between 2000 and 2010, but Michigan still lost population. That's how data works.

 
Old 04-08-2019, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,632 posts, read 4,916,196 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
And once again, you won't explain exactly what he said that was wrong.
You posted the link. You even quoted him misrepresenting atheism. Here:

I honestly think atheism is inconsistent with the scientific method. What I mean by that is, what is atheism? It’s a statement, a categorical statement that expresses belief in nonbelief. “I don’t believe even though I have no evidence for or against, simply I don’t believe.” Period. It’s a declaration.

This is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Typical, you make an assertion but never back it up. Just keep saying how wrong or stupid I am.
Typical dishonest Jeff response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
If the man had been awarded a Nobel, you would suddenly start talking down about that organization.
No I would not. Stop inventing stupid arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
It's really comical. Your side just can't accept that there are highly educated people out there who don't agree with atheists.
Of course we do. Stop inventing stupid arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Funny you don't hear the president of Dartmouth college trying to downplay this achievement:
And?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
From your own link - The Templeton Prize, valued at 1.1 million British pounds, is one of the world's largest annual individual awards and honors a person who has made an exceptional contribution to affirming life’s spiritual dimension, whether through insight, discovery, or practical works.

And from the Templeton foundation itself talking about John Templeton, who predicted that "scientific revelations may be a gold mine for revitalizing religion in the 21st century." To his mind, "All of nature reveals something of the creator. And god is revealing himself more and more to human inquiry, not always through prophetic visions or scriptures but through the astonishingly productive research of modern scientists."

Klar, no bias there. None whatsoever. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Nix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
What's next? Telling me that Dartmouth is a lousy institution?
Why, it has nothing to do with what I am saying? Of course, your straw man that we just invent excuses about positions that disagree with us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Yet science can't explain why a treatment works for one person and not another. It's always a gamble
Yes, science works, and more often than it fails. That still does not mean it is our god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Evidence is not proof.
Yes, I know. No one said it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Atheists seem incapable of understanding the difference.
Yet it is us who have to explain this ALL the time to the religious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
BTW, I will not respond to most of your posts from now on since you couldn't even show a tiny bit of respect and change your posting style.
I will post in any way that I want to, it is good for me to practice my English. As for respect, you have shown ZERO. You reap what you sow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Ridiculous to expect me to have to quote around every single sentence.
Again, you do not have to answer everything. Just pick a few points to misrepresent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
At least most people understand the concept of a paragraph.
Yes, paragraphs are usually used to group related information. But you force so much different, unrelated BS into one paragraph, how else am I to respond without you coming out with your usual excuse that "Typical, you make an assertion but never back it up"?
 
Old 04-08-2019, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,632 posts, read 4,916,196 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
In other words, Trans, the only acceptable evidence is anything that suits your opinion.
You have dropped some straw. And really, does your straw man need one of those? Think of the ladies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The evidence is against you, but you are in a constant state of denial.
Ha, but your evidence is all allegory we do not understand, remember, so you have no evidence.

Plus we have the logic, mathematics, science and history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
My God, some of you guys have no idea how uninformed and biased you sound.
Yet it is you who 1) has to invent excuses and 2) attack the people you should be siding with.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,463 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Not if you are going to dismiss a major news report as if it's fiction.
I didn't see that as a "major news report". I saw it more as a human interest story.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,463 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Then it explain it. Enough with the bold talk. You just can't stand that a highly educated man who won an award exposes the illogical nature of atheism. So all you can do is talk trash about the award or say, well he is just one man. Why on earth should I value your opinion over his? Atheists are too swollen with pride to admit they are wrong.




...
So Jeff, when a highly educated scientist who has won awards speaks out against religion and in favor of atheism, do you think that settles the question, also? Or is it just when a highly educated scientist who has won awards agrees with you?
 
Old 04-08-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,683,804 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
And again, you offer no evidence to explain why they may be increasing. So again, what is there to discuss then? If it is truly increasing then I can't dispute that. But I do have issue with the suggestion that they are embracing irreligion because they somehow see our faith as a lie. If you are going with that then it is hypocritical to dismiss my claim that irreligion causes a higher suicide rate.


If you want to see religion and churches in America destroyed then I hope your ilk is hard at work building a replacement structure for the countless Christian ministries that directly work to help people in crisis and need. Let's start with Mercy Ships. Atheists have any hospital cruise ships ready to go?
I don't think atheists want to see all religion and Christian ministries destroyed, just YOUR kind that supports suppression, dehumanization of gays, political control over choices that are best left to individuals, and sanctimonious, self-serving superiority. I'm for that myself.

Churches cannot do what the government can, if it would, do. Just a few years ago a former Republican Governor of Oklahoma, Frank Keating, made the outlandish statement that Catholic charities in particular give 50% of all support to the homeless, hungry, and destitute in the United States. Except that in no way meets the facts:

Quote:
----the government even foots a notable share of the bill for Catholic charitable work through social service contracts. According to NETWORK, a Catholic social-justice lobbying group, the federal government sent more than $1.5 billion to Catholic organizations over a recent two-year period. In 2012, the Economist reported that 62 percent of Catholic Charities’ support came from local, state and federal government agencies.

Keating said, "In the United States, 50 percent of social services are provided by the Catholic church." He’s right that Catholic groups are among the biggest providers of social-service charity in the nation, but it doesn’t appear that they account for half of all such charity.

We’re admittedly using a bit of guesswork, but Catholic charity seems to account for 17 percent to 34 percent of all nonprofit social-service charity, depending on how generous an estimate you make. And that share drops to single digits once you factor in the money the federal government spends on means-tested programs. We rate the statement False.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ial-services-/

Given multiple opportunities, the political arm of your religion cuts food for children (SNAP), cuts Medicaid entitlements, is looking at ways to cut health coverage to millions of Americans, and now is talking of cutting social security.

Your brand of religion is, anti-people, anti-humanitarian, and anti-Jesus. The show of "charity" is just that--a show to garner a public image for the selfish people that attend its churches so they won't see the real needs.

I have a lot more confidence in the humanity of atheists. You have none.

Your brand of religion needs to be wiped off the face of the earth---and you and YOUR ilk, are doing a pretty good job of it.

Keep up the good work.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 10:34 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
So Jeff, when a highly educated scientist who has won awards speaks out against religion and in favor of atheism, do you think that settles the question, also? Or is it just when a highly educated scientist who has won awards agrees with you?
I would hear him at least instead of just auto-reject which is what atheists do immediately if there is any evidence to threaten their disbelief.

The reality is that atheists do not have a single piece of evidence to prove that there is no life after death. And if you accept the possibility of life after death then you have to accept the possibility that our beliefs are true.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,632 posts, read 4,916,196 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I would hear him at least instead of just auto-reject which is what atheists do immediately if there is any evidence to threaten their disbelief.
And yet we looked at you Templeton link and ALL said the same thing.

So NO, we do not auto-reject. Why do you invent BS all the time? And then you ask why you get no respect.

And when we explain why you are wrong, you just auto-reject, making up stupid arguments about what we would do, or that our explanations are just assertions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
The reality is that atheists do not have a single piece of evidence to prove that there is no life after death. And if you accept the possibility of life after death then you have to accept the possibility that our beliefs are true.
And? You have no evidence there is.

But wait! We have the fact that NDEs differ according to the cultural beliefs of the person having them*. Which suggests they are products of the brain instead of genuine supernatural experiences. So we DO appear to have evidence.

* It is linked in one of Parnia's papers, which is behind a pay wall, so no link for you to auto-reject.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,463 posts, read 24,044,107 times
Reputation: 32778
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I would hear him at least instead of just auto-reject which is what atheists do immediately if there is any evidence to threaten their disbelief.

The reality is that atheists do not have a single piece of evidence to prove that there is no life after death. And if you accept the possibility of life after death then you have to accept the possibility that our beliefs are true.
See, that's where you're wrong. I read the post and then I looked him up and spent about a half-hour reading stuff of and by him.

And yes, you're right. You could be right. So could the Buddhists. So could the Hindus. And your evidence is no stronger than anyone else's.

You have a product to sell...and many of us are not buying. AND THAT IS OUR RIGHT.
 
Old 04-08-2019, 11:46 AM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,708,216 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
See, that's where you're wrong. I read the post and then I looked him up and spent about a half-hour reading stuff of and by him.

And yes, you're right. You could be right. So could the Buddhists. So could the Hindus. And your evidence is no stronger than anyone else's.

You have a product to sell...and many of us are not buying. AND THAT IS OUR RIGHT.
Of course that's is your right. And I have the right to speak up when people post untrue things about our faith. The sheer weight of evidence strongly favors Christianity. Yes, it is still possible that we are wrong. But that's like saying it could be wrong that my parents are not really my parents and are alien impostors.
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