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Yes. Sometimes people like the idea of things more than the reality. That's why we have "Christian" Churches in America that really don't care who or what God is, but instead are simply about being part of a group. It may not be a church -- it might be a formal club like the Moose Lodge, or the local softball team, or a bunch of atheists banding together as trolls on a religious message board to attack Christians (now I wonder where I'd find a board like that ).
And it was that day in the time of Hitler. Some people simply wanted to belong to a group of people, to be cared for by others. God was secondary. Hitler used that desire to his advantage.
Now, I have no problem with that. When it comes to a charismatic leader that they can adore, religion will still take a back seat. Mind, the Christians would still go along Sunday, mewl their songs, and grovel before the altar - so long as it was draped with a Nazi flag - no sarcasm - that was what they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
As fundie Christians use the threat of eternal damnation to their advantage.
Some do, at least. Some do their best to provide a sound argument. Other (sooner or later) revert to hellthreat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Once again, Ozzy, you fail to answer the question asked...which you do more and more in this forum.
It ought to be obvious when a God -apologist has nothing but accusations and denigration. Merely making a counter case ought to do, but it doesn't hurt to point out that we are making the case - they are simply waving it away with denial, denigration and deprecation, but no rebuttal, response or refutation, let alone a double "Rule of three" Rhetoric that is actually an assonance, for extra impact
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-27-2019 at 07:02 AM..
Please explain what case you have made for atheism. Do it in a simple statement, as if telling someone who has never heard of the Nazis.
Theism has failed to make a sound case for God -belief (of any kind) let alone any one religion or Holy Book. Therefor we do not know whether there is any god (agnosticism) and this mandates disbelief in the god (s) -claim until a sound case is made.
This is what atheism claims, and is. If anyone says it is anything else, they do not understand atheism.
If you are asking specifically about Hitler (or indeed Naziism as whole), the persistent declarations for God -belief, public and private, and the hostile declarations from Hitler at least, against atheism, makes the case.
“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them.“
~Adolf Hitler (Munich, April 12th 1922)
"And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government".
— Adolf Hitler, Speech delivered at Stuttgart, 15 February 1933" [182]
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-27-2019 at 08:32 AM..
I would just say look at the changed lives of those who become born-again Christians. Look at the Jesus Movement of the early 70's as just one example. It's a good example because it was a large group. There have also been two Great Awakening movements in US history that can be examined. To say that religion has not made a "case" is just a lie and completely absurd.
I would just say look at the changed lives of those who become born-again Christians. Look at the Jesus Movement of the early 70's as just one example. It's a good example because it was a large group. There have also been two Great Awakening movements in US history that can be examined. To say that religion has not made a "case" is just a lie and completely absurd.
Religion has made a case. The problem is those who have pretty much accepted it blindly.
Even then, it's not a lie...it's a difference of opinion...a different interpretation.
Theism has failed to make a sound case for God -belief (of any kind) let alone any one religion or Holy Book. Therefor we do not know whether there is any god (agnosticism) and this mandates disbelief in the god (s) -claim until a sound case is made.
This is what atheism claims, and is. If anyone says it is anything else, they do not understand atheism.
If you are asking specifically about Hitler (or indeed Naziism as whole), the persistent declarations for God -belief, public and private, and the hostile declarations from Hitler at least, against atheism, makes the case.
“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them.“
~Adolf Hitler (Munich, April 12th 1922)
"And now Staatspräsident Bolz says that Christianity and the Catholic faith are threatened by us. And to that charge I can answer: In the first place it is Christians and not international atheists who now stand at the head of Germany. I do not merely talk of Christianity, no, I also profess that I will never ally myself with the parties which destroy Christianity. If many wish today to take threatened Christianity under their protection, where, I would ask, was Christianity for them in these fourteen years when they went arm in arm with atheism? No, never and at no time was greater internal damage done to Christianity than in these fourteen years when a party, theoretically Christian, sat with those who denied God in one and the same Government".
— Adolf Hitler, Speech delivered at Stuttgart, 15 February 1933" [182]
this is absolute nonsense.
You claim no case of god of any kind when as a point of fact you anti-theist make up a definition that you want then deny them.
and those definitions are strictly based on your anti-religious/god beliefs. You central dogma. basically, just like fundy theism.
if hilter represents religious then Stalin represents anti-anti-religious. and Stalin made hitler look like mother Teresa.
toss in that theist generally stop theist and anti-godders do not stop anti-godders, and anti-godders numbers have nothing to stop the killings but running out of people to kill.
weak case? as weak as hitler for a poster child of anti-god- ders on a rampage.
I would just say look at the changed lives of those who become born-again Christians. Look at the Jesus Movement of the early 70's as just one example. It's a good example because it was a large group. There have also been two Great Awakening movements in US history that can be examined. To say that religion has not made a "case" is just a lie and completely absurd.
yup, its why anti-religous/god is just to dangerous a mind set to follow as blindly as raf, trans, and harry want us to. Like hilter, they will hurt, kill, and imprison those that don't follow their statement of belief about religious and god.
A picture of red square with nukes. with the caption ...
never take our eyes off a group of anti-religious.
.
I would just say look at the changed lives of those who become born-again Christians. Look at the Jesus Movement of the early 70's as just one example. It's a good example because it was a large group. There have also been two Great Awakening movements in US history that can be examined. To say that religion has not made a "case" is just a lie and completely absurd.
People becoming born again Christians does not prove that a god must exist.
but religion helping people can demonstrate that religion is not totally bad. Religion is dangerous. But not because of religion, its dangerous because people that bully others into thinking "youre for us or against us."
or worse, they deceive people into thinking ...
"just get out of our way so we can do some good in the name of our personal statement of belief about god/religious."
I would just say look at the changed lives of those who become born-again Christians. Look at the Jesus Movement of the early 70's as just one example. It's a good example because it was a large group. There have also been two Great Awakening movements in US history that can be examined. To say that religion has not made a "case" is just a lie and completely absurd.
Nobody denies the motivating power of Religious faith (one only has to count up the Martyrs for islam). But the case that atheism makes is whether, on reason and evidence, religion is true or atheism is the better explanation for how things are, and also makes the better case for which is better and more relevant for today.
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