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You already said it: the original sin of Adam is the cause of suffering in the world. Redemption through Christ is something that no one deserves. God would have been perfectly just to condemn all of humanity. Instead, God saves some, and the reason He does so is love.
I know this is going to hurt, but most of us don't believe the story about the garden of eden. So that brings total failure to your argument for non-christians. Why is that so difficult to understand?
God would have been perfectly just to condemn all of humanity. Instead, God saves some, and the reason He does so is love.
This mindset absolutely floors me! Personally, I think snj doesn't believe what he just said. He makes outrageous comments to yank our chains so he can get a good laugh at our expense. I recall we had another fundie poster in here who used to do the same thing.
This mindset absolutely floors me! Personally, I think snj doesn't believe what he just said. He makes outrageous comments to yank our chains so he can get a good laugh at our expense. I recall we had another fundie poster in here who used to do the same thing.
That mindset is antithetical to the Christian view of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus - God IS love (agape). Agape love has no such conditions. It is unconditional compassion, mercy, and charity, PERIOD.
That mindset is antithetical to the Christian view of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus - God IS love (agape). Agape love has no such conditions. It is unconditional compassion, mercy, and charity, PERIOD.
What snj has enunciated is pure Calvinist TULIP: we all deserve hell, but God in His infinite mercy has chosen to save--get ready for this hash--NOT ALL of us, but just a measly few of us. Why just a measly few of us? We have no clue. It's all in God's providence, but acknowledging the fact that we ALL deserve hell, the wonder is that God has chosen to save even a handful of wretches while tossing the rest of us into eternal flames. In other words, the lucky few who are deluded enough to believe they are among the chosen are SOOOOO grateful to God for having pulled them out of the frying pan that they haven't the slightest bit of consternation that the unlucky 98% rest of us God has deemed NOT to be worthy of His salvation are going to roast on a skewer for eternity. If this disgusting dogmatic claptrap doesn't make you vomit into your mouth and then spew it out over everybody unfortunate enough to be standing in your line of fire, well I don't know what will. If this doesn't prove God hates ALL mankind, again I don't know what will.
snj, you obviously haven't heard a word I've said.
Oh he heard alright. Listening is his problem. He has no independent thoughts. He's the type that would kill his whole family if he thought that his god wanted it. Very dangerous'
Oh he heard alright. Listening is his problem. He has no independent thoughts. He's the type that would kill his whole family if he thought that his god wanted it. Very dangerous'
...and he's allowed to vote!
Vry astute observation, Rafius. And you've just given me an idea for a new thread. Thank you.
Did it every occur to you that God is doing everything az-backwards if what you say is true. He wants us to believe in Him but He doesn't reveal Himself visibly to us. Instead He hides behind trees and clouds and doesn't even yell audibly to us. So we're skeptical because we don't see ANYTHING that indicates God even exists. Yet God reveals Himself to a few weak-minded gullible fools who haven't a shred of evidence that prove He exists, and then turns around and punishes the skeptics for eternity in hellfire because the skeptic is just following the logic God has implanted in him NOT to believe in what he cannot see or hear? That's crazy talk.
It's your thinking that is backwards. That's the problem. Human rational without a supreme knowledge of eternity and the universe is foolishness and laziness. Our brains want uniformity, beginning and end, equality, things that repeat. That's what science thrives on. Observation and faith that our observations will always repeat the same results. Basically you are asking for a one size fits all God who created everyone of different sizes.
God is not that way. If He only cared about making a quota of numbers then He would have made us all clones and then put on a light show for everyone to simply believe and accept. God isn't interested in that. It doesn't matter if millions of people are praising in heaven versus thousands. God's desire is for a personal individual relationship so He crafted every human being differently and set all of us on an individual path. It's both a beautiful and scary part of life. We don't all stand in line and exit the train station at the end of life. We all die alone with no guarantees of when or how.
Therefore, God has no interest in revealing Himself to everyone en mass. He wants to reveal Himself to people individually and uniquely according to their circumstances. He also knows the hearts of men and won't bother with people who have hardened their hearts against Him. There are countless people who can report having a supernatural encounter with God. But since that was an individual experience then a skeptic is not going to accept their testimony.
As for hellfire, what should God do with sinners then? Why should they have eternal life? Even if God created a planet for all the people who hated Him and chose sin, would it really be moral to allow such a place to exist? There would be no reason for morality in that realm since there is no consequence for sin. People who be free to prey and hurt each other. Sin is a cancer that has to be rooted out completely. I don't see any reason why God would need to torture unbelievers forever. Eternal death means just that. You are dead and destroyed. Never coming back.
If God hates us, He wouldn't have bothered giving people the ability to laugh and talents to share. Or taste buds to enjoy food. He would have just made us flesh machines created to serve and worship or be punished.
If God hates us, He wouldn't have bothered giving people the ability to laugh and talents to share. Or taste buds to enjoy food. He would have just made us flesh machines created to serve and worship or be punished.
Somewhat as Christians consider themselves then...here to serve and worship their god - or be punished.
As for hellfire, what should God do with sinners then?
Not create them?
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Personally, I think snj doesn't believe what he just said. He makes outrageous comments to yank our chains so he can get a good laugh at our expense. 
I recall we had another fundie poster in here who used to do the same thing.
