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First, I think we need to see what the Bible really teaches, what we can learn from the Bible:
Without Law there would be No punishing for crimes, that is why God lets the superior authorities exist - Romans 13.
In other words, this is a temporary arrangement until the start of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
When there is conflict between God's laws and men's laws then we are to obey God as per Acts 5:29.
In other words, God has the higher authority and man is in a relative position to God's absolute position.
It is man's false teaching about a God who burns people.
KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever, and Not kept burning forever.
As with Adam, there is No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy, just destruction for the wicked - Psalm 92:7.
Romans 6:23,7 says the price tag sin pays is: death. Not death plus anything else.
For in death there is No consciousness -> Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14.
Your post assumes n9t only that there is a God but that it must be the God of the Bible. I don't know how s9cities operated before they knew about the Bible. No laws, no marriages, probably no children as those are mentioned in the Bible.lif your God permitted man to punish for crimes he must of also knew that some men wouldvrape, murder, Rob and abuse children. He must of thought than man was able to give out punishment in various degrees depending on the crime whereas Jeff's God punishes everyone the exact same. I am willing t9 face punishment for any wrong doings I have done but I do not accept that your God will punish me for not believing in him as opposed to the other God's or not believing in any of them.
I do admit your God sounds fairer and more just than does Jeff's.
garbage pits back then may have produced some great soil.
so the siners of men are the fertilizers for the fruit that is bore of good men. And if we examine what fertilizers does we can even say the siners became good fruit and have entered the gates.
Its not even stretch. a 9 year old can see it, it is so obvious. .. its even in line with yinging and a yanging.
fundy' turned it into eternal hell and torment. go figure, they butchered it beyond all recognition.
Apparently, ' contemporary Christian theology ' is the modern-day monstrosity called ' Christendom '.
Christendom is just so-called Christian but mostly in name only.
Christendom is the ' MANY' Jesus talked about in Matthew 7:21-23.
After the death of the apostles (Acts 20:29-30) the fake 'weed/tares' Christians started to grow.
They would grow together with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the Harvest Time.
The ' Harvest Time ' or the soon coming ' Time of Separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,40.
Jesus was using a metaphor at Mark 9:47; Matthew 5:29-30.
So, Jesus was Not advocating self mutilation, but stressing metaphorically speaking to be willing to cut out of one's life what would be harmful to one's spiritually.
Like the example of an amputation which would be a painful action but would protect and save one's life.
KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hell or hellfire.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever Not burning forever.
So, to be thrown into Gehenna would be thrown to destruction. ALL the wicked to be destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7.
We are all given the choice to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' (Be destroyed) as per 2nd Peter 3:9
I notice, Matthew that you're more progressive in your Christian thought than the more conservative members of your group. Like jeff, who if memory serves used to be a die heart "Burn 'em all, God! Burn those atheist heretics forever!" and now seems to have embraced annihilation as a more logical alternative to the eternal damnation option.
Recall, I mentioned the Bible supports three eternal destinies equally so Christians get to choose which makes them most comfortable. But your choice of annihilation won't settle well with other "Burn 'em all, God! Burn those atheist heretics forever!" advocates which are legion over on the Christianity forum.
Quote:
We are all given the choice to ' repent ' if we do Not wish to ' perish ' (Be destroyed) as per 2nd Peter 3:9
Many Christians are now preaching the idea that God does indeed give is a second chance in the afterlife to accept Jesus since we operate in a strict "live by faith without evidence" frame ala Hebrews 11:1 which I've always had the sneaking suspicion was another of these passages to get God off the hook for His abject failure to give us any evidence with which to underpin belief in Jesus. Could you adopt this view, Matthew--that God can give heretics a choice in the afterlife rather than just "You didn't accept my son, Jesus in your first life so die eternally in your second, you hockey puck!"
I notice, Matthew that you're more progressive in your Christian thought than the more conservative members of your group. Like jeff, who if memory serves used to be a die heart "Burn 'em all, God! Burn those atheist heretics forever!" and now seems to have embraced annihilation as a more logical alternative to the eternal damnation option.
Recall, I mentioned the Bible supports three eternal destinies equally so Christians get to choose which makes them most comfortable. But your choice of annihilation won't settle well with other "Burn 'em all, God! Burn those atheist heretics forever!" advocates which are legion over on the Christianity forum.
Many Christians are now preaching the idea that God does indeed give is a second chance in the afterlife to accept Jesus since we operate in a strict "live by faith without evidence" frame ala Hebrews 11:1 which I've always had the sneaking suspicion was another of these passages to get God off the hook for His abject failure to give us any evidence with which to underpin belief in Jesus. Could you adopt this view, Matthew--that God can give heretics a choice in the afterlife rather than just "You didn't accept my son, Jesus in your first life so die eternally in your second, you hockey puck!"
I see you pointing to rational people vs irrational people expressing a believe.
people wrapping the system that is operating around them in human from for ease of discussion and those that make the system a human. These people making the system human call it "god", but its really bringing the uncertainty of the system into a package that they can use.
so human are the result of quantum mechanics. well, we have a volume of the system that we classify as "life" running on quantum mechanics. there is separation of the volumes in the system.
so they, believers, have some claims that match observations. and they have some claims that don't.
I see you pointing to rational people vs irrational people expressing a believe.
people wrapping the system that is operating around them in human from for ease of discussion and those that make the system a human. These people making the system human call it "god", but its really bringing the uncertainty of the system into a package that they can use.
so human are the result of quantum mechanics. well, we have a volume of the system that we classify as "life" running on quantum mechanics. there is separation of the volumes in the system.
so they, believers, have some claims that match observations. and they have some claims that don't.
You're absolutely right, Arach. There are as many different brands of Christianity out there as there are Christians, which at last count hovered around 3 billion and change. Put another way, each Christian has his own POV about moral, theological and historical issues because 99% of Christians have NEVER read their own holy book cover to cover so they haven't the vaguest clue about what is contained within it. Ask a typical Christian what John 3:16 says and they'll likely reply "You mean my cousin, John?" Ask them if homosexuals should be allowed to marry and they'll likely ask, "What does the Bible say?" and if you respond, "The Bible says, 'Stone 'em' " one will probably reply "That's pretty harsh" while another will say "Then we should stone them if that's what the Bible says."
All this points to the complete absence of a God and Jesus Christ in this world to lead people in a certain Godly direction. Jeffbase rationalized this failure on God's part to lead us to truth by opining, "We are all different and God has set us on different paths to self-realization which is why each person has their own unique experience with God." I agree we are all on different trajectories in this life and one person becomes a die-hard Christian while another becomes a Buddhist while yet another becomes atheist. But this has nothing to do with God or Jesus. It's has everything to do with our own personalities which 100% guide our decisions about what to believe. Repeat:
GOD/JESUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
If that's not indifference to our plight down here I don't know what is.
You're absolutely right, Arach. There are as many different brands of Christianity out there as there are Christians, which at last count hovered around 3 billion and change. Put another way, each Christian has his own POV about moral, theological and historical issues because 99% of Christians have NEVER read their own holy book cover to cover so they haven't the vaguest clue about what is contained within it. Ask a typical Christian what John 3:16 says and they'll likely reply "You mean my cousin, John?" Ask them if homosexuals should be allowed to marry and they'll likely ask, "What does the Bible say?" and if you respond, "The Bible says, 'Stone 'em' " one will probably reply "That's pretty harsh" while another will say "Then we should stone them if that's what the Bible says."
All this points to the complete absence of a God and Jesus Christ in this world to lead people in a certain Godly direction. Jeffbase rationalized this failure on God's part to lead us to truth by opining, "We are all different and God has set us on different paths to self-realization which is why each person has their own unique experience with God." I agree we are all on different trajectories in this life and one person becomes a die-hard Christian while another becomes a Buddhist while yet another becomes atheist. But this has nothing to do with God or Jesus. It's has everything to do with our own personalities which 100% guide our decisions about what to believe. Repeat:
GOD/JESUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
If that's not indifference to our plight down here I don't know what is.
Somewhat as Christians consider themselves then...here to serve and worship their god - or be punished.
My eternal purpose is to love and worship the Lord, because He first loved me and paid it all just to claim me as His own! That's what the Christian is: a slave (doulos) of Jesus Christ. We're not our own, but bought with a price (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). The Christian is an eternal love-slave of a perfectly kind and loving Master! Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for His sheep, who won't suffer the loss of even one of those who have been given to Him (John 10:27-30). There's no punishment to fear, because that's precisely what we've been saved from by grace through faith in Jesus.
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Ask them if homosexuals should be allowed to marry and they'll likely ask, "What does the Bible say?" and if you respond, "The Bible says, 'Stone 'em' " one will probably reply "That's pretty harsh" while another will say "Then we should stone them if that's what the Bible says." 
