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They don't understand that its ok to be mad at your parents and love them unconditionally at the same time.
In my case, I definitely acknowledge and have come to terms with the spiritual paradigm that my parents taught us which included the concepts of going to hell and possible eternal separation from God. It was definitely damaging and traumatic growing up. I have been that kid you see in 'Jesus Camp.' They dipped their toes in that kind of thing for awhile but have thankfully long gotten out of that. It took basically my entire twenties to heal from these damaging concepts. People were either saved or unsaved, going to heaven or going to hell. This caused me to feel very separate, alienated, distrustful, and even fearful of other people and fearful and separate from God.
To me, it was psychologically abusive and my subsequent spiritual experiences have me led to an understanding that we are extensions or individual forms of God/One Consciousness/Source. We originate from God/Source and we return back to God/Source upon physical death. God shows up in a multitude of forms including you and me and my experience has been that the two parts in oneself (human and 'God') can merge.
One of my greatest personal weaknesses is being too judgmental and unforgiving of others. I can hold onto grudges for WAY too long ruminating over the injustice and unfairness of what was done to me. You did something to me that I would never do to you! This will stew in my mind for years.
So I am trying to become more aware of and attuned to the reasons why people do things that they do. I am trying to have greater compassion, understanding, and then forgiveness for them with better understanding of where they are coming from. It's a spiritual lesson that I have somehow evaded or not practiced well all of these years on my path, and I need to continue to work on or practice this.
With my parents, I do now understand and forgive them for unintentionally hurting me growing up by presenting their spiritual paradigm to me as a kid. They were doing their best and thought it was the right thing to do. My dad was forced into killing other humans at age 18 in Vietnam and fought in the Tet Offensive which was one of the most brutal times in that war. He came back with PTSD and self medicated through his twenties with alcohol. He saw his friends die. The spiritual truths that do exist within his belief system, in my perception, have immensely helped him. Some of the untruths have held him back but the good stuff he believed in has carried him through all of these years to mostly flourish and succeed in most areas of his life.
My mother had her own set of issues that led her into fundamentalist Christianity. She was raised by an atheist Harvard law grad dad who pushed and pushed academic achievement while she attended these strict Catholic school with stern nuns. She was traumatized by the situation and felt she was only loved if she was very intelligent and high achieving. She worked in my granddad's psychiatric hospital from age 13 on which was depressing for her. She felt there was no joy, fun, or levity in her life growing up. He was an administrator at this hospital and had been in two wars himself, and was an antisocial guy. He equated intelligence and academic success with survival in the world and so pushed this onto his kids. She describes her life growing up as bleak, depressing, anxiety ridden, and she was suicidal by age 20.
My parents' spiritual path gave them hope, comfort, some way to make sense of the world and reality, and something to guide them. They were two lost and wounded souls barely out of their teens trying to make it in the world. There were some serious flaws in their beliefs, but like I said, some (in my perception and experience) universal spiritual truths greatly helped them make it through life together. In many ways, they have done well in life. They still believe in saved and unsaved, us versus them, heaven and hell. That part is not good but they have done a lot of good in other ways. That would be another post. I love them and do have compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for all of these things with them.
In my case, I definitely acknowledge and have come to terms with the spiritual paradigm that my parents taught us which included the concepts of going to hell and possible eternal separation from God. It was definitely damaging and traumatic growing up. I have been that kid you see in 'Jesus Camp.' They dipped their toes in that kind of thing for awhile but have thankfully long gotten out of that. It took basically my entire twenties to heal from these damaging concepts. People were either saved or unsaved, going to heaven or going to hell. This caused me to feel very separate, alienated, distrustful, and even fearful of other people and fearful and separate from God.
To me, it was psychologically abusive and my subsequent spiritual experiences have me led to an understanding that we are extensions or individual forms of God/One Consciousness/Source. We originate from God/Source and we return back to God/Source upon physical death. God shows up in a multitude of forms including you and me and my experience has been that the two parts in oneself (human and 'God') can merge.
One of my greatest personal weaknesses is being too judgmental and unforgiving of others. I can hold onto grudges for WAY too long ruminating over the injustice and unfairness of what was done to me. You did something to me that I would never do to you! This will stew in my mind for years.
So I am trying to become more aware of and attuned to the reasons why people do things that they do. I am trying to have greater compassion, understanding, and then forgiveness for them with better understanding of where they are coming from. It's a spiritual lesson that I have somehow evaded or not practiced well all of these years on my path, and I need to continue to work on or practice this.
With my parents, I do now understand and forgive them for unintentionally hurting me growing up by presenting their spiritual paradigm to me as a kid. They were doing their best and thought it was the right thing to do. My dad was forced into killing other humans at age 18 in Vietnam and fought in the Tet Offensive which was one of the most brutal times in that war. He came back with PTSD and self medicated through his twenties with alcohol. He saw his friends die. The spiritual truths that do exist within his belief system, in my perception, have immensely helped him. Some of the untruths have held him back but the good stuff he believed in has carried him through all of these years to mostly flourish and succeed in most areas of his life.
My mother had her own set of issues that led her into fundamentalist Christianity. She was raised by an atheist Harvard law grad dad who pushed and pushed academic achievement while she attended these strict Catholic school with stern nuns. She was traumatized by the situation and felt she was only loved if she was very intelligent and high achieving. She worked in my granddad's psychiatric hospital from age 13 on which was depressing for her. She felt there was no joy, fun, or levity in her life growing up. He was an administrator at this hospital and had been in two wars himself, and was an antisocial guy. He equated intelligence and academic success with survival in the world and so pushed this onto his kids. She describes her life growing up as bleak, depressing, anxiety ridden, and she was suicidal by age 20.
My parents' spiritual path gave them hope, comfort, some way to make sense of the world and reality, and something to guide them. They were two lost and wounded souls barely out of their teens trying to make it in the world. There were some serious flaws in their beliefs, but like I said, some (in my perception and experience) universal spiritual truths greatly helped them make it through life together. In many ways, they have done well in life. They still believe in saved and unsaved, us versus them, heaven and hell. That part is not good but they have done a lot of good in other ways. That would be another post. I love them and do have compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for all of these things with them.
I applaud you for coming out of your harrowing "Jesus camp" experience relatively sound, Chloe. Many do not. They stay scarred throughout their entire lives to one degree or another. I still suffer from the effects of the hell doctrine hammered into me. But I can neutralize it mostly by acknowledging the following:
The Christian religion and dogma was NEVER from God nor was it from Jesus. I have stated numerous times and so have scholars like Bart Ehrman, Richard Carrier, Robert M Price et al that the gospels were not Jesus' words. They were created by the Greek scholars writing the gospels 50-100 years after Jesus who had absolutely no sources or eyewitnesses upon which to draw from or base their Jesus' utterances on. It would be like me trying to report a conversation Lincoln had with General Grant three weeks after the attack on Fort Sumter that started the Civil War. I can assume Lincoln conferred with Grant about how they were going to conduct the campaign. We have no record of such a meeting, but it's a sure bet they did meet at some point. When I try to recreate the conversation I have nothing to draw on except what I know about how Lincoln and Grant might have felt about our nation going to war with itself. Out of this I create a dialogue that is heavily biased with my views about how they felt and what they MIGHT have said. But in no way is this conversation HISTORICALLY ACCURATE.
Same with the gospels. We cannot reliably believe that Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father but through me" or "If you do not believe I am he you will die in your sins". Upon these two verses (and a few others--all from ONE gospel, the gospel of John) written by anonymous Greek zealots 70-100 years after Jesus hang the entire Christian position that if you do not accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believe in him you will go to hell. Let me repeat that:
Upon these two verses (and a few others--all from ONE gospel, the gospel of John) written by anonymous Greek zealots 70-100 years after Jesus hang the entire Christian position that if you do not accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believe in him you will go to hell.
So all of Christianity today is teaching a horrible doctrine that historians cannot prove even originated with Jesus. Consequently, Christians today are hanging their sanity on words we cannot even show came from Jesus but rather came from some anonymous writer who was on fire for Jesus and was likely expressing his personal bias about how he felt God should deal with people who rejected Jesus.
I cannot stress enough how insane this is--that we base our entire spiritual lives and thoughts and actions on some unknown person(s) who could have been crackpots, like some crazy man standing on the street corner screaming to everyone who walks by "Repent, for the day of the Lord is nigh!"
In terms of the title of this thread (not recent posts), it's not God's hate...it's christian's hate.
Kevin Hart is vacationing in Thailand and has posted a few pics of him "praying" at a Buddhist temple. Which of course makes no sense. And he's getting raked over the coals by some of his fans, criticizing for bowing before idols and false gods. A few even saying they will no longer be his fans.
This is an issue about many christians -- a complete lack of even basic tolerance.
In terms of the title of this thread (not recent posts), it's not God's hate...it's christian's hate.
Kevin Hart is vacationing in Thailand and has posted a few pics of him "praying" at a Buddhist temple. Which of course makes no sense. And he's getting raked over the coals by some of his fans, criticizing for bowing before idols and false gods. A few even saying they will no longer be his fans.
This is an issue about many christians -- a complete lack of even basic tolerance.
How tolerant are you to make such a wide ranging blanket statement about a diverse group? Replace Christian in your statement with any other group and you would be labeled a self-righteous bigot.
Upon these two verses (and a few others--all from ONE gospel, the gospel of John) written by anonymous Greek zealots 70-100 years after Jesus hang the entire Christian position that if you do not accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believe in him you will go to hell.
So all of Christianity today is teaching a horrible doctrine that historians cannot prove even originated with Jesus.
Is ALL of Christianity today teaching this doctrine? I really don't know the answer to this. I tried to look at a few Episcopalian websites but they only mention belief in Jesus as Savior and stress inclusiveness and God's love. I thought some of the more progressive denominations like possibly Episcopalians had a less literal interpretation of hell. I occasionally go to Unitarian churches, and they interpret it more as one can create one's own inner hell by not understanding or perceiving one's spiritual connection to God/Source/Consciousness. They do not literally believe in a hell.
How tolerant are you to make such a wide ranging blanket statement about a diverse group? Replace Christian in your statement with any other group and you would be labeled a self-righteous bigot.
Of course I don't mean every christian, and I have repeatedly in this forum mentioned christians I know who are kind and wonderful examples of the way christianity is supposed to be. I don't think I need to post that every day.
But my comment stands, and if you don't like it...that's fine.
Of course I don't mean every christian, and I have repeatedly in this forum mentioned christians I know who are kind and wonderful examples of the way christianity is supposed to be. I don't think I need to post that every day. But my comment stands, and if you don't like it...that's fine.
It's just throwing out propaganda hoping to poison the well against a large number of innocent people.
I guarantee you would not like it if the groups you favor were treated in the same manner.
Is ALL of Christianity today teaching this doctrine? I really don't know the answer to this. I tried to look at a few Episcopalian websites but they only mention belief in Jesus as Savior and stress inclusiveness and God's love. I thought some of the more progressive denominations like possibly Episcopalians had a less literal interpretation of hell. I occasionally go to Unitarian churches, and they interpret it more as one can create one's own inner hell by not understanding or perceiving one's spiritual connection to God/Source/Consciousness. They do not literally believe in a hell.
Here's how it goes down, Chloe:
30,000 denominations are teaching THREE eternal destinies for souls:
1. eternal torment
2. annihilation of the soul
3. universal reconciliation--that is, redemption of the soul after death
All three positions can be supported solidly by verses from the Bible, that's how scatterbrained all this Christian guff is. So ultimately it boils down to which one appeals to your senses, the most. And all Christians ultimately choose which one to believe in by which one disgusts them the least. Some Christians aren't bothered in the least by the idea of billions of people burning in hell for all eternity. Their attitude is, "If they chose not to believe in Jesus they have it coming to them" and their thought process doesn't go any further than that. Others are repulsed by the thought of eternal torment and so they gravitate to one of the other two. Some go a step further as you suggest the Unitarians do when they assert that we make our own hells here on earth. It's all very subjective, and this is the reason none of this comes from God or Jesus, but that ALL OF IT was created by man for selfish reasons--eternal torment, as an example, being created by the early church as a means of scaring pagans into accepting Jesus so the church leaders could extracts large sums of money from them via tithes to support the church's growing lavish lifestyle. They told the dumb pagans, "God commands you to give money to Jesus' church and he warns that you will go to eternal torment in hell if you don't."
Rule No. 1: ALWAYS follow the money, even in religion.
I doubt that because it's highly illegal and you know it.
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