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I suspect that what Tzaph had (or has) up her sleeve (based on some earlier posts) is accusing atheists on the boards of being rude, hateful and abusive, and thus this is what they are like and thus, automatically that disqualifies atheism as a credible or valid lifestyle and the religious one wins by default.
That is the extent of the 'trial and test'. betcha
Of course, 'trial and test' can be based on the good, kind and fulfilling character of the religious, but it's sometimes the preferred choice of the Believer to achieve the same end by accusing, defaming and denigrating atheists and thereby atheism itself. Which leaves Theism the winner by default.
Whatever Atheist's may do or say should not upset anyone whom The One, True, Living, GOD, has spoken directly to. The Atheists I have read here seem to have above average intelligence when debating with Christians and others. However much intelligence all may have, nothing in this world, or the next, is better or more fulfilling than having a direct experience, and communication with, The One, True, Living, GOD.
Last edited by glenninindy; 07-27-2019 at 09:10 AM..
I think we're confusing things a bit. I guess there is testing of the teachings as a means of confronting the opposition. But at least in my case, it's about resolving my own questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I disagree with your view of "testing the teaching". Your method sounds to me to be very nebulous. When I speak of it, I mean seeing practical, tangible results.
I agree with those two elements you have mentioned so far with regards to "test the teachings" of a path in religion and spirituality. They are "resolving my own questions" and "tangible practical results."
Others that come to mind for me with regards to test the teachings are "what does this path ask of me" "who does it ask me to become" "in what areas does it invite me to change and grow " "what traits does it hold dear" "how does it nurture my relationship with the Creator" "how does it nourish my soul"
I agree with those two elements you have mentioned so far with regards to "test the teachings" of a path in religion and spirituality. They are "resolving my own questions" and "tangible practical results."
Others that come to mind for me with regards to test the teachings are "what does this path ask of me" "who does it ask me to become" "in what areas does it invite me to change and grow " "what traits does it hold dear" "how does it nurture my relationship with the Creator" "how does it nourish my soul"
You and I may be closer on this than I first thought.
I think the important thing about testing the teachings is sometimes being able to say "the teaching is wrong".
I hear some people complain about cherry picking. If one isn't cherry picking, one isn't thinking. We have another poster who, from what I can see, believes everything in the bible. That's not thinking.
It’s rough
2 things
Church tells us to marry but does not explain about divorce attorneys
Other thing
In mine doctors and nurses are bad news
But I know lots of them and like them
No need to reconcile anything. You form your own beliefs. Others' beliefs are irrelevant. You recognize you can't change anyone else's beliefs and don't try. It's not an issue if you don't make it one. When I was a child my parents got divorced, so theoretically my mother was excommunicated. She still sent me to Catholic school and still went to mass and received communion. As teenagers we were taught masturbation was a sin. As far as I know, it didn't stop anyone. We got married in church and were told birth control was a sin. When we were getting one of the kids ready to receive their first communion one priest asked my wife why she didn't have more kids. She told him, "when you have one we'll talk". We rarely go to church, nor do our kids or grandkids, but we are all baptized received religious training, first communion and confirmation. Once the kids were confirmed we stopped attending mass except on rare occasions like weddings and funerals. The same for our kids and grandkids. On two occasions when I was in the hospital I got the last rites and received communion in my bed. When they asked me if I wanted communion again the following days I said no thanks. I guess we all think for ourselves. We take what works the best for us and disregard the rest.
Now that's funny. Reminds me of former Secretary of Agriculture under Nixon comment about the pope regarding birth control and priests doing marriage counseling. In his best mock Italian accent he said:
We got married in church and were told birth control was a sin. When we were getting one of the kids ready to receive their first communion one priest asked my wife why she didn't have more kids. She told him, "when you have one we'll talk".
Whatever Atheist's may do or say should not upset anyone whom The One, True, Living, GOD, has spoken directly to. The Atheists I have read here seem to have above average intelligence when debating with Christians and others. However much intelligence all may have, nothing in this world, or the next, is better or more fulfilling than having a direct experience, and communication with, The One, True, Living, GOD.
That's odd. Atheists who have deconverted have said that being atheists is better and more fulfilling than God-belief.
I agree with those two elements you have mentioned so far with regards to "test the teachings" of a path in religion and spirituality. They are "resolving my own questions" and "tangible practical results."
Others that come to mind for me with regards to test the teachings are "what does this path ask of me" "who does it ask me to become" "in what areas does it invite me to change and grow " "what traits does it hold dear" "how does it nurture my relationship with the Creator" "how does it nourish my soul"
I agree with those two elements that you mentioned: what the 'path asks', 'in what areas does it invite change and growth'. They relate (or should) to the world we live in. The other two- 'god' and 'soul', before those become part of the equation, one should have a sound reason to think there are such or they are irrelevant to 'testing'.
Note btw two things: as i recall the 'testing' (1)was not confined to 'a path in religion and spirituality'. If it is, then the 'result' is an invalid as 'testing' whether eating lemon drops makes your life better, when you do whatever you can to make it better and then give the lemon -drops the credit. The other is a reminder that 'inspiration' was not going to be part of the argument.
(1) Testing, to use the analogy of testing a product offered by somebody involves seeing whether it works under...well, 'Testing'. It does not involve bodging, disregarding failures and problems and ignoring other products that might stand up to 'testing' better. To do that is not product Testing, it is advertising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
You and I may be closer on this than I first thought.
I think the important thing about testing the teachings is sometimes being able to say "the teaching is wrong".
I hear some people complain about cherry picking. If one isn't cherry picking, one isn't thinking. We have another poster who, from what I can see, believes everything in the bible. That's not thinking.
You put your finger on it. We have seen quite a few posts claiming that 'personal experiences' have convinced them. We are familiar with the method of starting with a 'Path' assumed to be Right, and then counting the hits and ignoring the misses, always assuming it was for the best (Aka 'Part of a Plan') and generally massage the results to fit the faith. In Tzaph's careful unidirectional selection of wording, I have already seen the red signal lights of the 'bias confirmation' express approaching.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-30-2019 at 06:17 AM..
OP, I did have trouble reconciling what I believed with what I was taught and in the end was not really able to do that. Raised Catholic, went to a Charismatic church for a year or two in my 20s but was never comfortable there, got involved with womens spirituality and the Goddess which I still maintain. Am very much drawn to Spiritualism and in line with their principles.
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Reminds me of former Secretary of Agriculture under Nixon comment about the pope regarding birth control and priests doing marriage counseling. In his best mock Italian accent he said: 
