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You've made a few claims here. Let's start with what you mean by "failed and crucified messianic attempt"? Are you suggesting that Jesus never actually died; that He survived the crucifixion??
As always, I appreciate citations from authoritative sources that support your claims. Nothing personal. I always do my own research to verify any claims, especially those related to my worldview and my understanding of reality. For such important matters as these, I will not accept anyone's [unsupported] opinion at face value.
(BTW, I noticed that even though you've said you believe the man Jesus was a real person, you slipped back into subtly suggesting the Jesus Myth*. Do you feel you need to do that because you were recently reprimanded and you desire to be accepted by your 'peers'?)
1. You need to stop with this faux research claim of yours. You've demonstrated quite clearly that your research consists primarily of You Tube videos.
It’s harder to kill off nonbelievers these days like you guys did in the past.
Hopefully one day it will dawn on you that nonbelievers have always been the ones with the most worldly power. They were the ones doing ALL of the killing.
It's clear today that they have a unquenchable thirst for blood. You try to say you are just getting "revenge" today. When in fact you are part of that same bloodthirsty group that goes back for aeons. You just refuse to admit it. You can't even look in the mirror.
1. Anonymity - Some people are under the impression that you can say anything online and get away with it. The online disinhibition effect suggests this anonymity may drive more deviant behavior, because it’s easy to avoid consequences.
2. Perceived obscurity - they believe their expressions are relatively private in certain forums
3. Perceived majority status - The spiral of silence theory suggests that when people think they are in the majority in a certain setting, they will more freely express their opinion. (more comfortable to express a ‘popular’ opinion); they think their opinion is the prevalent one there.
4. Social identity salience - The social identity model of deindividuation effects (“SIDE”)
- social identity sometimes means more than our individual identity
- people start responding like a group member aka “mob mentality”
(based on political, national, ethnic, religious, identity, affiliation)
- stop seeing yourself as an individual and act more in line with the group
*the group’s behavior can become more extreme than it would have been,
as everyone shifts to conform to the group even if they’re not as passionate or
opinionated as others in it
5. Surrounded by “friends” - may perceive their online environment to be full of people like them
- feel confident self-expressing because they anticipate support/agreement from their network; assumes that his network members feel the same way;
- He might even do so to earn “likes” or other expressions of agreement
6. Desensitization - Over time, we may get desensitized to the online environment;
- eventually just spout without thinking about it; start to lose our filter
- We may see so many nasty comments that we think making one ourselves is no big deal
7. Personality traits - tend to think that they are morally superior to others.
- some just enjoy making other people uncomfortable or angry
- Personality traits such as self-righteousness and social dominance orientation
- you think your own social groups are inherently better than others; express intolerance
- hard-core believers will express their opinions no matter what; they think their opinion is infallible
In summary, there are a lot of reasons that people post awful things online, and unfortunately, characteristics of online interaction make this a popular context for offensive chatter.
Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 08-10-2019 at 01:44 PM..
Hopefully one day it will dawn on you that nonbelievers have always been the ones with the most worldly power. They were the ones doing ALL of the killing.
It's clear today that they have a unquenchable thirst for blood. You try to say you are just getting "revenge" today. When in fact you are part of that same bloodthirsty group that goes back for aeons. You just refuse to admit it. You can't even look in the mirror.
Hi TRANS. Thanks for explaining further. I respectfully disagree with some of the things you stated.
------- TRANSPONDER: (2) Could it be the god of the Bible? ...there are arguments against a Creator of some kind"
I am interested to hear your arguments.
The way I see it, it makes LESS sense to believe that the universe (time, space, matter) spontaneously erupted from nothing, with no intention or intelligence. Even if you want to consider the idea of a multiverse, there still is the big question a beginning. Telling me that someday scientists will have an answer to the origin of the universe just kicks the can, conveniently, down the road. That would be expecting more from future scientists than can be realistically delivered.
Again- there aren't clear answers yet. I can only say that - if there is a creator - god, there really is no sign of his work in the universe we know of. And i have seen all the arguments from Complexity and statistics debunked.
Quote:
TRANSPONDER: (3) Was jesus somehow guided, inspired or even inhabited by Biblegod or indeed any other kind?"
* i tend to think there was a failed and crucified messianic attempt that gave rise to the Jesus-belief. Gospel Jesus is a Chrsitian myth, even if there was a Jewish messianic Jesus*.
* reinterpreted, first by Paul and then Paulinism, re -interpreted to make the messiah God; He was Never God until after Mark. The story is full of holes and not to be trusted; jesus was nothing to do with a god, even if there is one*
* The Christian version of the story was amended and added to separately by the writers, sometimes sharing documents, sometimes making stuff up themselves
-------
You've made a few claims here. Let's start with what you mean by "failed and crucified messianic attempt"? Are you suggesting that Jesus never actually died; that He survived the crucifixion?? As always, I appreciate citations from authoritative sources that support your claims. Nothing personal. I always do my own research to verify any claims, especially those related to my worldview and my understanding of reality. For such important matters as these, I will not accept anyone's [unsupported] opinion at face value.
Whether there was a real Jesus or not, I have to say that the Gospel evidence has a messianic input with a Roman execution for rebellion. This is inescapable. If one goes for a mythical Jesus - you have to wangle in other failed messiahs and Roman crucifixions (which it was) - The Hasmonean, Jannaeus, crucified Pharisees, but the Roman input here is compelling. One might say that The example came from the Jewish war and was backdated to Pilate's time. For me, it is explaining too much away and i think it is a real event.
But how real? Perhaps as little as a temple power struggle. Josephus in the business with the High Priest and Jesus son of Damnaeus gives an uncannily similar scenario (Thanks Pneuma) - except that the priests killed Jesus -not the Romans . Perhaps as much as the 'Jesus dids' being amazingly true, even if the 'Jesus saids' are demonstrably false. In which case, the 'miracles' (as John implies there were only four, and the many many miracles claimed by Luke and others is bosh, like the fame and crowds- of someone signally NOT mentioned in contemporary history)were fakes to impress his followers.
It would work - the water into wine- how easy to fake? The healing at a distance. Nobody to check but just 'Hoo boy...he healed just at the exact same time..did you -all syncrhonize your watches?'. Jairus' daughter - easy to set up and just a few trusted disciples in to witness the miracle.
The Bar Timaeus 'salted' outside Jericho for Jesus to heal and saluted with the Son of David title he'll need at the temple. And Lazarus- the biggest and best of all, and if you believe John, it stinks of a set up.
The biggest and best of all, that is, bar the last one. Since you make the point specifically. The Gospel account screams a set up job designed to get Jesus off the cross alive (using the Lazarus trick they'd already used) , and Pilate was on his side, remember. I used to believe it. I wrote a novel ('very bad') using the plot. I now (rather regretfully) don't subscribe to that totally. The point is - if you don't thing the gospels reliable - that story isn't needed. If you beleive the gospels story - you can't avoid it.
Quote:
(BTW, I noticed that even though you've said you believe the man Jesus was a real person, you slipped back into subtly suggesting the Jesus Myth*. Do you feel you need to do that because you were recently reprimanded and you desire to be accepted by your 'peers'?)
Nope. This (they will tell you) is where i have been since they have known me. That is, that is, if they any of them know me. I think Jesus was a real person because if he'd been totally made up, he wouldn't have been such a problem for them. But I am wide open to a Jesus who did the (faked) miracles and the temple bust up to a Jesus who did none of those things and was completely under the radar. but frankly I can't buy that either. He had to have done some of those things, but whichever it is, there are problems.
What I have no doubt about are the sayings. Paulinist Christianity, every last word, stuffed into Jesus' mouth to discredit Judaism and boost Gentile Christianity.
Trust me. It was revealed unto me in a dream.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-10-2019 at 01:48 PM..
Again- there aren't clear answer yet. I can only say that - if there is a creator - god, there really is no sign of his work in the universe we know of. And i have seen all the arguments from Complexity and statistics debunked.
Whether there was a real Jesus or not, I have to say that the Gospel evidence has a messianic input with a Roman execution for rebellion. This is inescapable. If one goes for a mythical Jesus - you have to wangle in other failed messiahs and Roman crucifixions (which it was - The Hasmonean, Jannaeus, crucified Pharisees, but the Roman input here is compelling. One might say that The example came from the Jewish war and was backdated to pilate's time. For me, it is explaining too much away and i think it is a real event.
But how real? Perhaps as little as a temple power struggle Josephus in the business with the High Priest and Jesus son of Damnaeus gives an uncannily similar scenario- except that the priests killed Jesus -not the Romans . Perhaps as much as the 'Jesus dids' being amazingly true, even if the 'Jesus saids' are demonstrably false. In which case, the 'miracles' (as John implies there were only four, and the many many miracles claimed by Luke and others is bosh, like the fame and crowds- of someone signally NOT mentioned in contemporary history).
As always, I appreciate citations from authoritative sources that support your claims. Nothing personal. I always do my own research to verify any claims, especially those related to my worldview and my understanding of reality. For such important matters as these, I will not accept anyone's [unsupported] opinion at face value. It would work - the water into wine- how easy to fake? The healing at a distance. Nobody to check but just 'Hoo boy...he healed at the exact same time..did you -all sycrhonize your watches?'. Jairus' daighter easy to set up and just a few trusted disciples in to witness the miracle.
The Bar Timaeus 'salted' outside Jericho for Jesus to heal and saluted with the Son of David title he'll need at the temple. And Lazarus- the biggest and best of all, and if you believe John, it stinks of a set up.
The biggest and best of all, that is, bar the last one. I used to believe it. I wrote a novel ('very bad') using the plot. I now (rather regretfully) don't subscribe to that totally.
Nope. This (they will tell you) is where i have been since they have known me. That is, that is, if they any of them know me. I think Jesus was a real person because if he's been totally made up, he wouldn't have been such a problem for them. But I am wide open to a Jesus who did the (faked) miracles and the temple bust up to a Jesus who did none of those things and was completely under the radar. but frankly I can't buy that either. He had to have done some of those things, but whichever it is, there are problems.
What I have no doubt about are the sayings. Paulinist Christianity, every last word, stuffed into Jesus' mouth to discredit Judaism and boost Gentile Christianity.
Trust me(?). It was revealed unto me in a dream.
Quote:
Iwasmadenew: As always, I appreciate citations from authoritative sources that support your claims. Nothing personal. I always do my own research to verify any claims, especially those related to my worldview and my understanding of reality. For such important matters as these, I will not accept anyone's [unsupported] opinion at face value.
Why no citations for any of your claims? If what you claim is just your opinion, say so. If not, provide links, please. Doesn't this topic matter enough to you to take it more seriously?? It's only your eternity at stake.
1. You need to stop with this faux research claim of yours. You've demonstrated quite clearly that your research consists primarily of You Tube videos.
Hi phetaroi. Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware the theory had a name. 303Guy described something similar, but I wasn't aware there were more people, here, who considered it as a valid consideration.
You mentioned previously that you used to believe in God. What were the key reasons you sought to find something other than Christianity?
What is it about Buddhism that leads you to conclude it is the "truth."
Why no citations for any of your claims? If what you claim is just your opinion, say so. If not, provide links, please. Doesn't this topic matter enough to you to take it more seriously?? It's only your eternity at stake.
You need me to provide chapter and verse so you can look them up? There's nothing other than than what's in the Bible. Apart from Jannaeus crucifying Pharisees but that's stock Christian apologetics "It wasn't only Romans did crucifixions-jews did them, too!".The Jesus son of Damnaues is only incidental to a possible power-struggle, which is not what I'm claiming.
Jesus couldn't have said? David and the Shewbread is the test case here. The Pharisees would never have let that nonsense pass and jesus would have known it. It has to be Christian propaganda to bamboozle the unprepared. Which it has done nicely for 2,000 years.
If there is any 'claim' that you want me to reference explain or discuss, list them.
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. Perhaps as much as the 'Jesus dids' being amazingly true, even if the 'Jesus saids' are demonstrably false. In which case, the 'miracles' (as John implies there were only four, and the many many miracles claimed by Luke and others is bosh, like the fame and crowds- of someone signally NOT mentioned in contemporary history)were fakes to impress his followers.
Since you make the point specifically. The Gospel account screams a set up job designed to get Jesus off the cross alive (using the Lazarus trick they'd already used) , and Pilate was on his side, remember. I used to believe it. I wrote a novel ('very bad') using the plot. I now (rather regretfully) don't subscribe to that totally. The point is - if you don't thing the gospels reliable - that story isn't needed. If you beleive the gospels story - you can't avoid it. 
