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Not all universal truth is "knowable." Not yet anyway.
This statement too is based on faith, faith that if we keep striving the unknowable will be revealed to us.
I am more than ever convinced this thread is about religion in the guise of science.
If you think 2 +2 = 4 is a universal truth, then this whole topic is petty.
I guess I'm understanding you no better than you are understanding me. One's truth may be petty for another, but what is universally true for all of us remains regardless, understood or not. Petty or not...
Sticking my head out of the sand again... I've asked you more than once for any example of a 'universal truth' that pertained to THIS forum, not the science forum.
I still haven't seen you offer one.
Trying hard to understand you too while you stick your head in and out of the sand, but no need to hide or be shy I don't think...
THIS forum is about religion and spirituality. The Nine Truths I wrote many years ago was my attempt to address or "offer" what you say I haven't offered about religion, spirituality and/or truth, all specifically mentioned.
Have you got an example of universal truth that better pertains to THIS forum, because if what I have offered doesn't qualify far as you are concerned, perhaps you can provide an example that helps me better understand. Possible?
Trying hard to understand you too while you stick your head in and out of the sand, but no need to hide or be shy I don't think...
THIS forum is about religion and spirituality. The Nine Truths I wrote many years ago was my attempt to address or "offer" what you say I haven't offered about religion, spirituality and/or truth, all specifically mentioned.
Have you got an example of universal truth that better pertains to THIS forum, because if what I have offered doesn't qualify far as you are concerned, perhaps you can provide an example that helps me better understand. Possible?
What? You don't have a religious or even a spiritual example that you can put as clearly as the nonreligious example of 2+2=4?
You know, something clear like "there are no gods" or "Jesus wore Nike sneakers"
And, no, I can't offer you one for the same reason I gave you the last time. IMO there isn't one.
Rather than check the validity of your claims (not even to help your own cause) you assume the position that you know better than anyone, because, what, you're 60? If you can't see how insanely short sighted and intellectually lazy that is at your age then perhaps you haven't learned anything.
And yes, you may well have some limited knowledge, but your ignorance in other areas is utterly staggering in contrast to your claims. Because all those things I mentioned are standard when it comes to science, yet you had no apparent awareness of them. See, you claim to be guided by logic and reason but the obvious lack of either, convinces me otherwise. But who knows, perhaps if people keep repeating some common sense facts to you over and over some might just get through.
Itzpapalot, I'm beginning to think there is another reason I post in this forum...
You!
Much as I'd like to more intelligently and productively address your issues with my claims, you are very long on criticism and very short on specifics. Again a necessary correction: I don't assume I know anything better than anyone. I am simply communicating what I think I do know, and obviously I am open to comment about anything I put forth along those lines. We go from there...
Surely we can agree there are volumes of what to consider, all related one way or another to my Nine Truths. You seem to be arguing that there is much else out there that might either mostly confirm or refute what I consider my truths worthy of consideration. Well no kidding! I considered much about all that before I wrote them out. What makes you so confident about all you are going on about? Especially about me? What logic or reason justifies your claim about what I am ignorant about? I mean specifically.
"Had no apparent awareness of them?"
Specifics please! If you have heartburn or issue with anything I am explaining, don't simply claim I don't know what you want to believe I don't know. Please don't simply claim ignorance without a shred of what you specifically think I claim as true that is not true. Please have mercy...
What are these "common sense facts" that aren't getting through to me, contrary to what I am explaining is common sense truth? Specifically. Please connect those dots in some reasonable intelligent manner instead of all this nebulous angst that is really what is causing more repetition than in any way necessary. I'm simply continuing to address you with this same request, and you simply will not comply.
This statement too is based on faith, faith that if we keep striving the unknowable will be revealed to us.
I am more than ever convinced this thread is about religion in the guise of science.
Seems we agree about something here. I do have faith we humans will keep striving to learn more about what we still don't know much about. However, I don't have faith as you suggest that we will ever know everything there is to know...
TWO: Human beings cannot know all that truly exists. The Universe and all it contains is full of mystery that will forever be marveled and pursued by Man as long as he survives.
What? You don't have a religious or even a spiritual example that you can put as clearly as the nonreligious example of 2+2=4?
You know, something clear like "there are no gods" or "Jesus wore Nike sneakers"
And, no, I can't offer you one for the same reason I gave you the last time. IMO there isn't one.
If there isn't one, maybe that's another reason my Nine Truths make more sense than some are willing to accept or admit...
Itzpapalot, I'm beginning to think there is another reason I post in this forum...
You!
Much as I'd like to more intelligently and productively address your issues with my claims, you are very long on criticism and very short on specifics. Again a necessary correction: I don't assume I know anything better than anyone. I am simply communicating what I think I do know, and obviously I am open to comment about anything I put forth along those lines. We go from there...
Surely we can agree there are volumes of what to consider, all related one way or another to my Nine Truths. You seem to be arguing that there is much else out there that might either mostly confirm or refute what I consider my truths worthy of consideration. Well no kidding! I considered much about all that before I wrote them out. What makes you so confident about all you are going on about? Especially about me? What logic or reason justifies your claim about what I am ignorant about? I mean specifically.
"Had no apparent awareness of them?"
Specifics please! If you have heartburn or issue with anything I am explaining, don't simply claim I don't know what you want to believe I don't know. Please don't simply claim ignorance without a shred of what you specifically think I claim as true that is not true. Please have mercy...
What are these "common sense facts" that aren't getting through to me, contrary to what I am explaining is common sense truth? Specifically. Please connect those dots in some reasonable intelligent manner instead of all this nebulous angst that is really what is causing more repetition than in any way necessary. I'm simply continuing to address you with this same request, and you simply will not comply.
LearnMe, as mensa said, this thread isn't about your wishful thinking on how universe should work but about why people bother to post here when they don't make any difference. And you've just illustrated one of the reasons why people struggle to make any progress here. If you want to continue to embarrass yourself on the subject of science, philosophy or philosophy of science you should at least have the courage to open a new thread in a corresponding forum.
Oh, and by the way, if you weren't so busy doing your 'I know best' impression and just checked your most current universal "truth" you'd find that what 2+2 equals depends on a context in which it is measured. But hey what do I know? Right.
P.S. Mensa, if you're reading this, I apologise for paraphrasing you. I know those weren't your exact words.
If there isn't one, maybe that's another reason my Nine Truths make more sense than some are willing to accept or admit...
Hey! You're the one that came spouting off and claiming there are "Universal Truths".
And this is the forum you came to in which to do so.
At this point, I'd guess we now know that you don't even believe what you were peddling.
I guess I'm understanding you no better than you are understanding me. One's truth may be petty for another, but what is universally true for all of us remains regardless, understood or not. Petty or not...
Who cares. 2+2=4. Water is wet. The sky is blue.
That's not what a quest for universal truth is. Those are just factoids.
You wanna see what some consider to be universal truths:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
Those are concepts that should be discussed in talking about universal truths.
And, because of the forum we are posting in, they need to be about religion and spirituality. And you've gotten off track on that.
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