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Is it your opinion that any atheist who converts to Christianity made a logic error, or perhaps they weren't truly an atheist to start with?
No. What i will say is that 'I can't recall any Christian who claims to have converted from atheism' putting forward sound, valid and logical reasons for doing so. Peter Hitchens (brother of the Hitch) was of course one i had to look into. What arguments would he use against his brother's atheism? Well his conversion seems to have been purely Political. His hatred of communism drove him to ....a mental stage where he just needed a Push into Belief. And he used an image of Hellfire to do that.
Where are the logical arguments there?
He now marshals Arguments after the fact, but they are unsound as is the case with all the apologetics. They only work IF you believe it all already.
Now the vid. Yes, the red flag went up when i saw these arguments as not being atheist -type arguments but Christian misunderstanding and misrepresentations of atheist arguments. So ...there we are. And Lee Strobel knows, he wouldn't be the first 'atheist converted to Christianity' that seemed to have forgotten or never heard the atheist side of it, or at least the valid version of the atheist side of it. And it is far from the only vid. that looked like a Christian fake up making atheism look bad, like the notorious atheist raving at Christians - after he'd clocked the camera to see that it was running.
But whether legit. or fraud, the arguments are still bad and fallacious arguments, and do not represent what a logical atheist presentation of these arguments would be. So the case made in the vid. fails either way..
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-14-2020 at 08:42 PM..
A complete bit of IWAS either not knowing that the argument is rubbish or not caring.
That nobody claims that abiogenesis is proven is known. Indeed it debunks the claim we sometimes hear from creationists that science claims abiogenesis as proven fact when it isn't. We've all se the complain that it gets into the text-books.
But here, IWAS shows that it is Not a proven fact, but papers are published about the hypotheses. Like the Hoggs-Boson before it was proven, or indeed relativity before it was validated by experiment, there are papers published. There is not Silence just because it is still a hypothesis.
Sorry to intrude... do you mind if I listen in on your group atheist huddle?
Sorry to intrude... do you mind if I listen in on your group atheist huddle?
You are not only welcome to listen in, but comment. Indeed i would like to hear how you comment on your post refuting the creationist claim that 'Evolutionists claim that Abiogenesis is a fact'.
Is it your opinion that any atheist who converts to Christianity made a logic error, or perhaps they weren't truly an atheist to start with?
When anyone converts to xtianity, especially in the “born again” format, it usually has its roots in personal tragedy and emotional breakdown. Listen to almost any jesus testimony. Alcoholism, imprisonment, drug addiction, depression, disease, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, intense loneliness, you name it. It always seem to be a collapse in the face of tremendous stress. Rational happy people rarely suffer from this collapse.
This of course doesn’t apply to the indoctrinated, people brought up with parents who destroy their intellects.
No. What i will say is that 'I can't recall any Christian who claims to have converted from atheism' putting forward sound, valid and logical reasons for doing so. Peter Hitchens (brother of the Hitch) was of course one i had to look into. What arguments would he use against his brother's atheism? Well his conversion seems to have been purely Political. His hatred of communism drove him to ....a mental stage where he just needed a Push into Belief. And he used an image of Hellfire to do that.
Where are the logical arguments there?
He now marshals Arguments after the fact, but they are unsound as is the case with all the apologetics. They only work IF you believe it all already.
Now the vid. Yes, the red flag went up when i saw these arguments as not being atheist -type arguments but Christian misunderstanding and misrepresentations of atheist arguments. So ...there we are. And Lee Strobel knows, he wouldn't be the first 'atheist converted to Christianity' that seemed to have forgotten or never heard the atheist side of it, or at least the valid version of the atheist side of it. And it is far from the only vid. that looked like a Christian fake up making atheism look bad, like the notorious atheist raving at Christians - after he'd clocked the camera to see that it was running.
But whether legit. or fraud, the arguments are still bad and fallacious arguments, and do not represent what a logical atheist presentation of these arguments would be. So the case made in the vid. fails either way..
What I hear you saying is:
1- you're highly skeptical about every atheist-to-Christian conversion story you've encountered so far
2- you've never seen an atheist-to-Christian conversion story that contained a logical, reasoned argument
3- you think that these people might be lying (or exaggerating) about having been a "real" atheist just to make atheism look bad
A complete bit of IWAS either not knowing that the argument is rubbish or not caring.
That nobody claims that abiogenesis is proven is known. Indeed it debunks the claim we sometimes hear from creationists that science claims abiogenesis as proven fact when it isn't. We've all seen the complaint that it gets into the text-books.
But here, IWAS shows that it is Not a proven fact, but papers are published about the hypotheses. Like the Higgs-Boson before it was proven, or indeed relativity before it was validated by experiment, there are papers published. There is not Silence just because it is still a hypothesis.
Harry says he has full "100% confidence" that abiogensis is accepted science.
Quote:
Harry: "I have told you why I have a 100% confidence [in abiogenesis] because no one has provided a credible alternative."
When anyone converts to xtianity, especially in the “born again” format, it usually has its roots in personal tragedy and emotional breakdown. Listen to almost any jesus testimony. Alcoholism, imprisonment, drug addiction, depression, disease, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, intense loneliness, you name it. It always seem to be a collapse in the face of tremendous stress. Rational happy people rarely suffer from this collapse.
This of course doesn’t apply to the indoctrinated, people brought up with parents who destroy their intellects.
Hi Marc.
I think pride often plays a part in why someone resists/rejects God. Someone who's fulfilled by their own achievements/pleasures will be more less likely to want/need God, but if a person who is going through a personal tragedy would be in a more vulnerable and humble and also more receptive to a relationship with God. It makes sense that there are many examples of people finding God in the midst of a hardships or other difficulties in life.
Harry says he has full "100% confidence" that abiogensis is accepted science.
Abiogenesis, true or not, is irrelevant. Even if it’s false, there’s no cause to invent gods to fill the gaps. The correct approach is to keep researching and learning, not capitulate to nonsense such as creationism and intelligent design and all the other amateur-hour pseudoscience.
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew Harry says he has full "100% confidence" that abiogensis is accepted science.
"I have told you why I have a 100% confidence [in abiogenesis] because no one has provided a credible alternative."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
Abiogenesis, true or not, is irrelevant.
"Even if it’s false, there’s no cause to invent gods to fill the gaps. The correct approach is to keep researching and learning, not capitulate to nonsense such as creationism and intelligent design and all the other amateur-hour pseudoscience."
Being wrong about abiogenesis is not irrelevant. It calls into question your ability to critically assess information. You also have "100% confidence" that the God of the Bible does not exist. How can you be sure you're not wrong about that, too?
Hi Marc.
I think pride often plays a part in why someone resists/rejects God. Someone who's fulfilled by their own achievements/pleasures will be more less likely to want/need God, but if a person who is going through a personal tragedy would be in a more vulnerable and humble and also more receptive to a relationship with God. It makes sense that there are many examples of people finding God in the midst of a hardships or other difficulties in life.
Which is concordant with my view that christian conversion is a form of nervous breakdown. It’s an emotional collapse fueled by desperation and wanting to totally give up in order to gain some kind of control through capitulation to a perceived external life coach.
When you talk to born agains, it’s like they are in a trance. And they so cling to the “savior” narrative that it is immediately obvious that these are broken people who have gone through personal hell and resorted to a coping mechanism to take the pain away and surrender their personal autonomy to other people who guide them to this comforting fairy tale. Where they are ”saved” and “loved”, even though there is no real entity to save or love them. It’s a psychological analgesic and it enables a tremendous degree of distraction from one’s self-perceived character faults.
The true shame? It’s just another form of escapism from reality. And unfortunately there is no escape, it’s an illusion and it allows for wasting time and focus. Instead of embracing reality and making good, and often difficult, decisions to attack one’s personal failings.
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