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That is a claim, not an actual example. Until proven otherwise, everything has a source.
You illogic, Mystic, or rather logic based in an understanding of science. You are confusing 'common sense' that sees as counter intuitive things that science proves to be so. Indeterminacy, which you cite as oprrof of
this very point - that we cannot rely on what we think we know - in an example.
You see how inconsistent your thinking is? And we know why. You do not see the whole picture but do 'ad hoc' apologetics for different problems, and they are often apologetics that contradict each other.
And now back to comparing Atheism and Christianity, rather than -yet again - refuting your own beliefs that you persistently peddle.
Now you are being condescending. Whatever is responsible for our entire Reality and everything that exists including us with our amazing consciousness is pretty darn God-like so any suggestion that it is NOT God is just human arrogance.
Whatever is responsible for our entire Reality and everything that exists including us with our amazing consciousness is pretty darn natural, so any suggestion that it IS god is just arrogant wishful thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
We do not know but if anything qualifies as God, whatever is responsible for our Reality DOES, whether or not we know what it actually is.
It's (as Krauss said to Ricky') 'yes, you can call it 'God'.' an empty victory if we used the term 'God' instead of 'nature'. But many would consider it had done everything they want as atheism would now be gone. This would be false because 'God' might equally well be called 'nature'.
But we all know don't we, that once the 'God' -label is accepted, all the dogmatic religious baggage would be attached to it and we would be expected to accept it.
It's why the 'God' -label can't be given a pass though in fact it means nothing. The believers think it means everything.
I've long been meaning to 'purport' to accept such an argument just to see how the believer handles the leap of Faith from First cause, right past all the various religions ('It's all the same god") to the gospel of John.
Existence IS evidence. Your preference for ignorance about it does NOT mandate the default. Being responsible for everything that exists is the minimal definition for God as a cognitive concept whether or not you like it because of any other fantasies or beliefs that exist ABOUT God.
You have not shown non-existence is possible.
Being responsible for everything that exists may be a minimal definition for many of the creator gods, but that does not mean it must have been a god.
Something is responsible whether or not you think so and preferring ignorance over God is NOT a superior or privileged assertion. It is just ignorance.
What predicate are you aware of that just exists without a source? Mere assertion without reference to an actual unambiguous example in our Reality is insufficient.
What conscious intelligence that just knows things are you aware of that just exists without a brain? Mere assertion without reference to an actual unambiguous example in our Reality is insufficient.
Mystic himself (long past) sneered at the absurdity of Infinite regression. as an excuse for positing a complex being (with volition as he knows very well but is an elephant in the room that he studiously ignores, as it's something he'd have to prove; and never having the burden of proof on the believer is a support of the Theist apologetic). that doesn't itself have any origin, but always was. What is more counter -intuitive than that, I find it hard to imagine.
Prof. Krauss did touch on 'something from nothing' as sme possibly plausible hypothesis. Bit 'nobody knows' is the right answer and 'a sorta -god would really not help the religious cause (though it would validate the irreligious theist cause) at all.
Argument from 'Who made everything,then' is really futile, just like trying to debunk evolution as it makes no difference to the 'Which religion' debate. But the Believers really sees these as pivotal ponts which will win then the whole shebang.
I could discuss the mental condition of the 'one shot win' and how the Theist apologists think that is how we argue, too. But I could go on for ever and miles off -topic, in that direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
A good point. Hopefully IWas will explain in their own words this very good evidence for Christianity.
I will toss out a line and see whether he bites. AA or R/s think you?
p.s appropros of nothing I must recall one of my fun moments when I pretended to have seen the light. Mystic (and a few others) weren't fooled, but it was quite fun keeping it going late March up to posting the vision of God I'd 'seen' (the FSM) on April 1. But I screwed that up by not posting the classic (Michaelangelo) 'His noodleness inculates Love of pasta into man..' (1) but an image that nobody understood. And even funnier, half my posts were deleted for 'imitating a deceased member' (my old pal Rifleman') which I hadn't been doing at all and i was just being me.
It was l great fun. And June 7 swore it had been a thread she'd enjoyed as much as any.
That is a claim, not an actual example. Until proven otherwise, everything has a source.
you haven't met my sisters. Be that as it may. I think its more about what created us. Atheist just say we don't know and it probably was something since we all kind of lean on the notion that something didnt come from nothing.
The difference is when we list the properties of the biblegod they are saying did it. Sure, something could have started it. We all agree to that. Its just why would we jump to a biblegod doing it when we don't even see that thing today?
What predicate are you aware of that just exists without a source? Mere assertion without reference to an actual unambiguous example in our Reality is insufficient.
I think of it like this mystic. I plug something into the wall for power.
What is the source for the power? What is the actual thing causing this magical power? Its something. Thats is for sure. The power isn't coming from nowhere either.
Just because we don't know what the source is doen't mean we jump to the bibllegod.
so, the difference between atheist and Christians, in this matter, is that we don't jump to a biblegod just because we do not know what that something is that started it is.
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