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ALL the evidence says no intelligent being did it. We do not need snowflake Kobolds to produce snowflakes.
Assertion without evidence. When asked to prove NO God exists don't you resort to the excuse that you cannot prove a negative or some such. Why would that be different with this assertion?
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It is the evidence, and has nothing to do with guesses (otherwise it would not be Bayesian). Priors are not just religious things.
Probabilities are quantified GUESSES NOT evidence, period.
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Another assertion without evidence.
I know you are not claiming that an apple once produced does not exist if the tree is cut down, right, so what ARE you asserting here?
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You have helped me very much in this area. It is the only thing of value you have provided on this forum, so I must at least thank you for that.
I am pleased to have been of help, brother. We are all in this together.
Observation shows gravity causes stars and planets to form. We do not observe some god creating them like Frikadella. You just presume sans evidence some god is behind gravity.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Probabilities are quantified GUESSES NOT evidence, period.
Even if that was correct (it is not), it is still more evidence than you have.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I know you are not claiming that an apple once produced does not exist if the tree is cut down, right, so what ARE you asserting here?
I am asserting nothing, I am pointing out you asserted the self is independent of the brain that created it. A computer program would have been a better analogy.
Observation shows gravity causes stars and planets to form. We do not observe some god creating them like Frikadella. You just presume sans evidence some god is behind gravity.
No, gravity is the name you use for what God does and you have no evidence to suggest it isn't. What about your default preferences do you NOT understand. There is no evidence whatsoever for them involving the issue of God, period. You can NOT prove God does NOT exist. You can only prefer to assume it.
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Even if that was correct (it is not), it is still more evidence than you have.
I have exactly the same evidence about our Reality (God) that you have, but probabilities are NOT evidence. They are quantified prediction likelihoods of being right. I am amazed that you do not seem to understand that.
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I am asserting nothing, I am pointing out you asserted the self is independent of the brain that created it. A computer program would have been a better analogy.
Anything that is produced by a process exists. Its existence cannot be eliminated retroactively by doing anything to whatever produced it.
I think most of us tend to be confident about what we believe, certainly as we get older. Unlike you I have always been interested in those arguments, and just to be clear, I have not ever heard convincing argument or seen convincing evidence that God exists. That's all. I can't believe in anything that lacks merit along those lines. Simple as that really. More like you, however, I too am not opposed to changing my beliefs if presented with more convincing argument so that I too can have the clearest view of reality I can, whatever the truth looks like.
Where does that leave us?
You specifically claimed that the the arguments against God existing are "far more convincing" than the arguments for God's existence. That's different than saying you don't think God exists just because you've not seen any convincing evidence, yet.
What is the "far more convincing" evidence you were referring to?
I've been putting together a list of questions for a "Worldview Questionnaire" for people on the R&S forum. This is what I've come up with so far. I would be interested in your brief answers to these questions, or your suggestions for improving these questions.
(*I welcome suggestions from anyone for improving these questions)
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Worldview Questionnaire:
* What term best describes your worldview?
* What term best describes your political leanings?
* Do you believe in macro-evolution (common ancestor/descent)?
* Do you believe in abiogesis? (biological evolution from inorganic materials; life from non-life)
* Do you believe the entire universe (time, space and matter) originated from nothing, by chance?
* Does free-will exist?
* Does objective truth exist?
* Does objective morality exist?
* Do you believe in life after death?
* Do you believe in anything paranormal or supernatural?
More details about the Worldview Questionnaire:
//www.city-data.com/blogs/blog46488-worldview-questionnaire-looking-your-input.html
Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 03-25-2020 at 02:54 PM..
could you clarify the question on how the universe stated?
form nothing or something?
by chance can be from something right?
then, if you believe something started it do you think it was a deity or just something else?
Thanks for your feedback, Arach.
How would you word a worldview question about origin of the universe?
An alternative to my question could be:
"Do you believe the entire universe (time, space and matter) had a beginning, a finite length of time ago (i.e. our universe is not eternal)"
Some other Q ideas for the questionnaire:
* Why is there something rather than nothing?
* Do you believe everything that happens has a cause?
* Do you think it’s possible that we are living in a simulation?
* Do you see the universe as a creative expression of an evolving consciousness or 'Spirit'
I'm putting together a list of questions for a Worldview Questionnaire. I want to choose questions that are most relevant to discussions on the R&S forum.
There are so many variations of belief, even within a particular worldview, it can be a good exercise to investigate one's own worldview in more detail.
Once the questions are finalized, with your suggestions, I will post the Worldview Questionnaire to a new thread in the R&S forum for anyone who wants to fill it out.
*** The questionnaire is intended for anyone who wants to investigate their own worldview in more detail. It not for the purpose of debating worldviews. ***
FYI: Here's an example of a different Worldview Questionnaire [Institute for Cultural Evolution]
I will answer your questionnaire, but also include my thoughts on your questions. Let’s see where this goes.
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Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
You specifically claimed that the the arguments against God existing are "far more convincing" than the arguments for God's existence. That's different than saying you don't think God exists just because you've not seen any convincing evidence, yet.
What is the "far more convincing" evidence you were referring to?
I've been putting together a list of questions for a "Worldview Questionnaire" for people on the R&S forum. This is what I've come up with so far. I would be interested in your brief answers to these questions, or your suggestions for improving these questions.
(*I welcome suggestions from anyone for improving these questions)
-----
Worldview Questionnaire:
* What term best describes your worldview?
Logical positivist. I think you might be asking about religious viewpoint, which is agnostic atheist based upon my philosophical worldview.
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* What term best describes your political leanings?
Maybe humanist. Practically speaking democratic. Philosophically a socially conscious libertarianism. This is such an open ended question I don’t really know how to answer.
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* Do you believe in macro-evolution (common ancestor/descent)?
Yes, of course. This strikes me as a litmus test for other things. A less biased question might be “Do you believe in the scientific method?”
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* Do you believe in abiogesis? (biological evolution from inorganic materials; life from non-life)
Now it strikes me that our question is ill-conceived. First, believe vs accept is inherently biased language. Secondly, abiogenesis is a solid fact, and even Christians who believe in creation have to believe in abiogenesis. After all, at some point we did not have life, then we did. Therefore abiogenesis indisputably occurred.
You are really asking about HOW life arose from non-life. Why not ask this directly rather than by begging the question?
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* Do you believe the entire universe (time, space and matter) originated from nothing, by chance?
Another leading question. The answer is that I don’t know how the universe originated, or even if it did originate.
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* Does free-will exist?
The other questions you ask are foundational. This one is a question that is dependent upon the answers to the rest. You might as well ask if the person believes that god gave man free will. I do not believe in free will, but I am also unsure of that answer
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* Does objective truth exist?
What is truth? Objective facts exist. We can tell the truth about those facts, the truth can be unknown, or we can lie. Does that mean objective truth exists? The question doesn’t make much sense to me.
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* Does objective morality exist?
Yes, but that is dependent upon your definition of morality. You are asking the wrong question.
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* Do you believe in life after death?
No. Many philosophical schools do, but they don’t necessarily believe in a god.
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* Do you believe in anything paranormal or supernatural?
Cautiously no. But that is definitional. Supernatural by definition means something beyond the natural, which means people believe things contrary to the scientific method. Only a person with cognitive dissonance would believ in the scientific method, which you sort of asked earlier, and also believe in the supernatural.
More details about the Worldview Questionnaire:
//www.city-data.com/blogs/blog46488-worldview-questionnaire-looking-your-input.html[/quote]
Meh. Nor going to follow links. If you wan5 to ask the questions you have a perfectly valid thread here.
Thanks for answering and commenting on the questions, fishbrains. I'm also interested in knowing what questions you would ask if you put together a questionnaire for the R&S forum?
*Please correct me about anything you don't think I've summarized accurately...
Worldview Questionnaire:[fishbrains]
1* What term best describes your worldview? A: Logical positivist, agnostic atheist
"Logical positivist. I think you might be asking about religious viewpoint, which is agnostic atheist based upon my philosophical worldview."
2* What term best describes your political leanings? A: humanist, democratic, socially conscious libertarianism
"Maybe humanist. Practically speaking democratic. Philosophically a socially conscious libertarianism. This is such an open ended question I don’t really know how to answer. "
3* Do you believe in macro-evolution (common ancestor/descent)? A: Yes
"Yes, of course. This strikes me as a litmus test for other things. A less biased question might be “Do you believe in the scientific method?”
IWMN: it's not a litmus test. the purpose is to clarify/explore one's own worldview in more detail.
4* Do you believe in abiogesis? (biological evolution from inorganic materials; life from non-life) A: abiogenesis is a solid fact
"Now it strikes me that our question is ill-conceived. First, believe vs accept is inherently biased language. Secondly, abiogenesis is a solid fact, and even Christians who believe in creation have to believe in abiogenesis. After all, at some point we did not have life, then we did. Therefore abiogenesis indisputably occurred. You are really asking about HOW life arose from non-life. Why not ask this directly rather than by begging the question?"
IWMN: I asked this question because I am curious who believes life originated from non-life.
5* Do you believe the entire universe (time, space and matter) originated from nothing, by chance? A: I don’t know
"Another leading question. The answer is that I don’t know how the universe originated, or even if it did originate."
6* Does free-will exist? A: I do not believe in free will
"The other questions you ask are foundational. This one is a question that is dependent upon the answers to the rest. You might as well ask if the person believes that god gave man free will. I do not believe in free will, but I am also unsure of that answer"
IWMN: I wanted to know if people think their thoughts/actions are "determined" or their own choice.
7* Does objective truth exist? A: Objective facts exist
"What is truth? Objective facts exist. We can tell the truth about those facts, the truth can be unknown, or we can lie. Does that mean objective truth exists? The question doesn’t make much sense to me."
IWMN: I'm referring to something being true independent of individual subjectivity caused by perception, emotions, or imagination.
8* Does objective morality exist? fishbrains: Yes (*dependent upon definition)
IWMN: Q: What is the definition of morality that you're using?
"Yes, but that is dependent upon your definition of morality. You are asking the wrong question."
9* Do you believe in life after death? A: No
"No. Many philosophical schools do, but they don’t necessarily believe in a god."
10* Do you believe in anything paranormal or supernatural? A: No (*cautiously; definitional)
"Cautiously no. But that is definitional. Supernatural by definition means something beyond the natural, which means people believe things contrary to the scientific method. Only a person with cognitive dissonance would believ in the scientific method, which you sort of asked earlier, and also believe in the supernatural."
..... When asked to prove NO God exists don't you resort to the excuse that you cannot prove a negative or some such. ..........
Why not show us how to prove a negative We'll use that method to prove no god exists OK?
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