Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The specific reason is there is no evidence that it’s a true belief. And holding false beliefs is destructive to human flourishing. Beliefs inform action. Untrue beliefs lead to irrational actions. Since I have to share my planet with other people, I want everyone to hold as many true beliefs as possible. This maximizes rational actions, rational actors, and a better world.
Sounds like you see yourself on an important and noble mission. When did you begin this mission and have you made much progress so far?
What makes you confident that you have the actual truth, aside from your desire to believe that?
Sounds like you see yourself on an important and noble mission. When did you begin this mission and have you made much progress so far?
What makes you confident that you have the actual truth, aside from your desire to believe that?
Correct. Pursuit of knowledge is a noble mission. However there is no actual finally determined truth, as we are in a continuous process of learning and refinement that will last until we are extinct. Complete knowledge is unattainable. Confidence levels ARE attainable and should be proportioned to the available evidence. The goal is to compile the most knowledge possible using reason, logic, and the scientific method. And act in consonance with the findings. More and more knowledge leads to better informed actions, higher moral standards, and the highest possible degree of human flourishing.
Irrationality and mysticism lead to the opposite.
I want to hold as many true beliefs as possible, and I want to share the planet with other rational people who have the same goal: to learn, integrate, and maximally prosper by being consonant and harmonious with reality. I think great progress is being made. We see most of the civilized world living in a secular fashion, even while professing a belief in deities. Actions speak louder than words. I also see those under 30 overwhelmingly moving away from mysticism and toward secularism and science. I am optimistic that the world I'm leaving is more like the world I'm making.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 03-28-2020 at 12:27 AM..
I can discuss that topic without involving religion, if you want.
I'm interested in your answer to that question.
For me it is not a desire to not believe. It's as Marc and Thrill have mentioned - sheer lack of evidence. In fact, I see evidence for the non-existence of 'God'. Ironically, what others see as 'evidence of God', I see as evidence of non-existence, like in nature. Nature is wonderous but shows all the hallmarks of natural development.
One point that Marc mentioned - believing in something false retards the gain of knowledge. A case in point would be someone who stops their medication because a psychic has cleansed them and healed their condition.
The topic of 'something more' would really be the subject of a new thread (or reopening an existing one) but I am interested in learning what exactly is going on. We hear reports from various people and sometimes we have weird experiences ourselves.
We'll have to agree to disagree about many topics, including this one. No sense wasting our time repeating the same things we've already said many times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
What is your motivation to want to believe God does not exist?
Irony in two consecutive posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
For me it is not a desire to not believe. It's as Marc and Thrill have mentioned - sheer lack of evidence.
This is the same for me. IWas has been told many times wanting to believe MBombo does not exist has nothing to do with atheism. But IWas is not here for an open, honest discussion.
We'll have to agree to disagree about many topics, including this one. No sense wasting our time repeating the same things we've already said many times. I really don't care what you believe. I don't feel compelled to change your mind on anything. Be free!
BTW, why did you choose the username "mensaguy"?* Does it have any meaning or significance?
(*You don't need to answer if doing so would reveal something about you that you're not comfortable divulging.)
I made two well thought out posts addressing your questions. You have failed to respond to either of them. I won't respond to any more of your posts until you do.
I made two well thought out posts addressing your questions. You have failed to respond to either of them. I won't respond to any more of your posts until you do.
I think that we have twigged the tactical method if this dude. Fire off questions and answer none. Ever. The blatant and unashamed dismissal of the commentary vod on the Dillahunty -Wood debate (Posted by IWMN) Ans my own commentary on part of it (also ignoring my comments on the vid made by a 'former atheist' - and posting it again!) made it clear that we shall get no change out of this one and refusal to answer any more Q's until he (or she) answers some wouldn't be a bad option.
I would like to just look at these points for now.
How does something come from nothing? The laws of physics (I'm going to get banned for this) state that energy (matter) cannot be created or destroyed. Hard fact. Yet energy and matter exist. Another hard fact - energy and matter could not have always existed. So where did it come from?
Well, here's an example of something from nothing;
ax²+bx+c = 0
What does this have to do with religion? God is not needed to create something out of nothing and anyway, God would have needed have been created out of nothing first.
And the wonder and beauty of life and nature? There is also a harshness, horror and ugliness in nature.
But, but, but...
What is needed to create a God? Or did God come from nothing?
You specifically claimed that the the arguments against God existing are "far more convincing" than the arguments for God's existence. That's different than saying you don't think God exists just because you've not seen any convincing evidence, yet.
What is the "far more convincing" evidence you were referring to?
I've been putting together a list of questions for a "Worldview Questionnaire" for people on the R&S forum. This is what I've come up with so far. I would be interested in your brief answers to these questions, or your suggestions for improving these questions.
(*I welcome suggestions from anyone for improving these questions)
-----
Worldview Questionnaire:
* What term best describes your worldview?
* What term best describes your political leanings?
* Do you believe in macro-evolution (common ancestor/descent)?
* Do you believe in abiogesis? (biological evolution from inorganic materials; life from non-life)
* Do you believe the entire universe (time, space and matter) originated from nothing, by chance?
* Does free-will exist?
* Does objective truth exist?
* Does objective morality exist?
* Do you believe in life after death?
* Do you believe in anything paranormal or supernatural?
More details about the Worldview Questionnaire:
//www.city-data.com/blogs/blog46488-worldview-questionnaire-looking-your-input.html
REPLY TO Iwasmadenew
Worldview Questionnaire:
* What term best describes your worldview?
To answer this fully would require a book. But as I have said repeatedly, the hallmark of modern science has been the recognition that everything that occurs does so based on natural laws which can be understood, and potentially even manipulated. While it certainly remains true that not everything that occurs is currently understood, the possibility of understanding the natural processes at work is undiminished.
* What term best describes your political leanings?
I am an unabashed liberal. In my experience atheists tend to be of the liberal persuasion. But there is no hard and fast rule on this, and I know atheists who are very conservative.
* Do you believe in macro-evolution (common ancestor/descent)?
First, let me say that holding hard and fast beliefs is a useless endeavor. Because our knowledge is constantly evolving. Knowledge necessarily must be based on a constantly changing scale of highest to lowest probability, based on that which can be observed to be true.
The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. In science, evolution, the change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over time, is one of the most important modern concepts for understanding the process of biology. Evolution is a theory in exactly the same way that nuclear theory is a theory. Both evolution and nuclear theory continue to be studied and refined. This does not indicate that evolution and nuclear theory represent wild guesses. Nuclear fission is a well established reality. It's hardly a wild guess.
* Do you believe in abiogesis? (biological evolution from inorganic materials; life from non-life)
It is observed that life is composed of non loving inorganic material. Protons, neutrons and electrons are not alive, and neither are they individually organic. However, they are interchangeable. The same protons, neutrons and electrons that once made up a rock, now help to make up you. It's all in the way things are assembled. What causes things to be assembled in different ways? Quantum mechanics (positive and negative attraction/repulsion) is an unrelenting process that is responsible for all change. Many people may not find this emotionally satisfying. But the nature of the way things are is under no obligation to satisfy anyone's emotional needs.
* Do you believe the entire universe (time, space and matter) originated from nothing, by chance?
Again, there is that word "believe." Everything that occurs does so for a very precise set of reasons, based on the process of quantum mechanics.
* Does free-will exist?
Within the limitations of the circumstances of one's birth, yes.
* Does objective truth exist?
"Truth" is to be found in the exact process of any physical event. Anything else is an opinion.
* Does objective morality exist?
No. Morality is an opinion. Widely shared opinions are still opinions. Holding opinions is not necessarily a bad thing. But opinions are subject to modification. Slavery is an example.
* Do you believe in life after death?
All experience and observation indicates that death is final.
* Do you believe in anything paranormal or supernatural?
We've come full circle. The hallmark of modern science has been the recognition that everything that occurs does so based on natural laws which can be understood, and potentially even manipulated. Conclusions that result in the assumption of the occurrence of supernatural or paranormal intervention are the product of ignorance.
what many do not understand is that it is how matter and energy exchange information. The more patters the more it will look like life.
its really simple if you have mind to try and understand it.
But, I guess, like some people use "I feel god" like its the end all some people will use "I don't care ...religion sucks ... so all that is goo-ey woo-ey" as the end all.
all the mean while both types are all to eager to beat us over the head with how much they know whats best for us.
More like simple to imagine if you have the creativity to do so, and that I think you do...
Not sure matter and energy "exchange information," but that too is rather creative and a bit of a departure from the more common and mundane understanding that matter and energy are transferred from one form to another. Matter includes all living and non-living things. Energy is power from physical or chemical resources.
Easier for me to understand anyway. Easier than understanding the other notions including God for example, but no doubt the other versions are very creative. No denying that fact!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
