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Old 03-28-2020, 12:33 PM
 
29,440 posts, read 9,624,469 times
Reputation: 3452

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
Its all about information exchange and conservation of energy. Its not a departure t all. In fact, its basic. I wish I could say it differently. But it does show some of the problem we face. People basing the certainty of woo claims on things they don't even know.
Gots to sign off now, but as I do I remain curious about this point of fact (?) that you seem to have skipped right over...

"I'm curious. This about how "most scientists lean towards something" for example. Have you got anything that helps prove that claim as well? Not sure I've ever seen a poll of scientists about "nothing" vs "something." What have you got along those lines?"

If possible, anything you have to substantiate your claim about this is of interest to me, for perhaps tomorrow when I return. Thanks!

 
Old 03-28-2020, 03:03 PM
 
Location: USA
4,747 posts, read 2,338,805 times
Reputation: 1293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
Not bad. I would modify them a bit but yours is good enough.
The reason I took the time to answer the questions was twofold. First, being on lock down, I have plenty of time. But I thought they were worthwhile questions.

After I answered each question I spent a good hour tweaking and modifying my answers. Undoubtedly there is room for improvement.
 
Old 03-28-2020, 03:28 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The reason I took the time to answer the questions was twofold. First, being on lock down, I have plenty of time. But I thought they were worthwhile questions.

After I answered each question I spent a good hour tweaking and modifying my answers. Undoubtedly there is room for improvement.
I thought your answers where great. I meant modify them to fit my experiences.

Ty for the answers really.
 
Old 03-28-2020, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,962 posts, read 857,756 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The reason I took the time to answer the questions was twofold. First, being on lock down, I have plenty of time. But I thought they were worthwhile questions.

After I answered each question I spent a good hour tweaking and modifying my answers. Undoubtedly there is room for improvement.
Hi TotN. I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questionnaire. As stated previously, the intent of the questionnaire is for anyone interested in exploring their own worldview in more detail. I'm glad you thought the questions were worthwhile and I hope that you found it a beneficial or clarifying in some way.
 
Old 03-28-2020, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,962 posts, read 857,756 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I think that we have twigged the tactical method if this dude. Fire off questions and answer none. Ever. The blatant and unashamed dismissal of the commentary vod on the Dillahunty -Wood debate (Posted by IWMN) Ans my own commentary on part of it (also ignoring my comments on the vid made by a 'former atheist' - and posting it again!) made it clear that we shall get no change out of this one and refusal to answer any more Q's until he (or she) answers some wouldn't be a bad option.

More vague comments about unanswered questions? I offered to address the specific questions that are most important to you. I don't want to waste me time answering questions that don't really matter much to you. You have yet to provide any specific questions...

IWMN: The commentary video is 2 hours long and you want me to "take each point in turn"? The chances of me spending time and thought on a response that might not even matter to you is very high. I don't want to fritter my time away. I asked to prioritize questions that really matter to you. Please choose a specific question or two that you most want me to address.

TRANS: You don't have to do it all. I said you can do a few points per post. But if it's too much of a bother, you don't have to do this at all.

IWMN: If it's too much trouble for you to choose a specific question that actually matters to you, then why keep commenting about me not answering your questions??
 
Old 03-28-2020, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,962 posts, read 857,756 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Thought you would never ask! And/or why not? I've made that suggestion to you before, but...?

I think you're just teasing me (and others)...

Is this your most recent thread on the topic...
Ten truths
//www.city-data.com/forum/relig...en-truths.html
 
Old 03-28-2020, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Canada
2,962 posts, read 857,756 times
Reputation: 201
PineCreek interviews someone from his Youtube Comment section

Description: "I found Nick in my Youtube Comment section and he seemed very passionate about his beliefs and eager to talk. So I invited him on my livestream."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5As0tzE0s

Topics covered w/ timecodes:

3:39 Are the gospels historical narrative, reading like a newspaper?

5:33 Nick's primary reason for believing in Jesus

14:17 Heartburn or Jesus?

20:47 Nick, meet Nate from India who had the same experience as you.

27:15 Nick admits he could be wrong about Jesus

26:26 Doug's problem with Nick's answer.

34:37 How did Nick come to the conclusion that Jesus really made the claims outlined in the Gospels?

39:30 What does historical narrative sound like? Do the gospels really read like historical narrative?

52:15 Do we really have eye witness evidence of Jesus?

1:02:18 Why I don't see Josephus and others as "independent sources" for Jesus

1:07:48 What does the atheist, Doug, believe in?

1:10:35 Nick tells me what I believe as an atheist and I listen patiently.

1:11:55 Why agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive terms.

1:16:32 Nick's problem with Atheism

1:17:35 Doug summarizes Nick's story.

1:23:53 Doug "Battle of Biases" - God told Nick to talk to Doug about philosophy

1:25:23 I try to please Nick with a better answer then listen patiently why my answer is terrible.

1:29:17 I answer Nick's concerns with one picture.

1:35:12 Darwin is irrelevant to evolution.

1:36:08 I discover a 2nd reason why Nick may leave Christianity and ask "What's the difference between micro and macro evolution?"

1:40:43 You've seen a poodle injected with wolf semen?

1:44:37 "What would you have to see in order to accept evolution via common descent?"

1:46:04 "I can't believe macro evolution by faith, it has to be potentially observed by me and repeatable ... BUT I can believe in the resurrection of Jesus without those criteria.

1:47:43 My final thoughts and decompression.

Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 03-28-2020 at 06:58 PM..
 
Old 03-28-2020, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,094,900 times
Reputation: 14069
Still yanking.

 
Old 03-28-2020, 10:09 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,587,076 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
More vague comments about unanswered questions? I offered to address the specific questions that are most important to you. I don't want to waste me time answering questions that don't really matter much to you. You have yet to provide any specific questions...

IWMN: The commentary video is 2 hours long and you want me to "take each point in turn"? The chances of me spending time and thought on a response that might not even matter to you is very high. I don't want to fritter my time away. I asked to prioritize questions that really matter to you. Please choose a specific question or two that you most want me to address.

TRANS: You don't have to do it all. I said you can do a few points per post. But if it's too much of a bother, you don't have to do this at all.

IWMN: If it's too much trouble for you to choose a specific question that actually matters to you, then why keep commenting about me not answering your questions??
Thank you for exhibiting a perverse approach. I suggested just take each point in turn (as I did) and hust as much as you can handle. I could pick out some specific points but where's the need? What dors 'what's important to me' have to do with commenting on the commentary?

And another video for us to watch, I see.


I liked the mention of seeing the OT as literature-poetry but the Gospels as a 'historical' narrative. Not a question of just accepting it but questioning.



I won't spend too much time on the account 'Jesus talking to him'. It's understandable. Not convincing, but understandable. The point about the Gospels being 'historical' in a way the other religions aren't is a good one. This covers the point about 'born in another country' 'Question and research'. The idea is the people in the other countries would read the Bible and be convinced.

I won't spend much time on the 'heartburn' issue. His experience in in the head. Excitement at conversion might produce a physical reaction. The Psychological check is also irrelevant. Conversion is nothing to do with that.

It must come down to the comment that the gospels are reliable. He mentioned about the calling os the disciples. If he knows that they conflict in ways that throw doubt on the story, he doesn't mention it.

By the way, I have also experience the odd 'not being ale to move' to get out of bed. It goes off and without prayer.

I don't know about about the conversion anecdotes. He does evade the point about a Vishnu converts - why that isn't true and his is. Then he gets onto special pleading - Islam has stuff wrong with it, Christianity is fine.

Now we got onto 'understanding'. That to me translates as 'explanatory apologetics'.. Which is what it comes down to. The Gospels are full of holes. Can they be explained? No- not really. Only if one accepts those explanations. And he says it 'If you can disprove the resurrection is not true, my religion in bankrupt'. (he misreads Paul on that, but everyone does and the point is a valid one anyway.

I think it can be shown unreliable. But anyway. He is appealing to more people seeing the resurrection than a few who saw Muhammad fly to heaven on a winged beast. In effect he says they could be lying. So why wouldn't the disciples lie?

He mentions the 500 (which is in Paul, not in Matthew). We are on the proof of the resurrection and we are stuck on the reliability of the gospels. It's what we come down in the end and specifically, the resurrection.

And we got to the Quran validating Muhammad historically true - but not the claims. So why are the claims in the gospels correct? His objection to the Quran is not that it isn't historically valid but disagrees with what the gospels say. But that could make the gospel -claims wring. We have special pleading going on.

And now he's trying to find a way out of historians writing in a particular way (critically). He refers to Jews writing it differely. But he already said that the OT is nit history. We are deep in excuses -and contradictory ones, too.

There's the point about Luke not writing like a historian. He quotes the preamble where Luke claims that he made 'careful enquiry'. But that does not tell us the sources so we can check.

Then a load of preaching really quoting Luke and Matthew and the details which he presents as valid because it's full of detail. Now he's accusing carrier of not being honest.

'claims of eyewitness testimony'. Now he's referring to what's in the Gospels say as 'outside' confirmation. In trying to find outside evidence in Jewish writing he refers to the Dead Sea Scrolls -which don't mention Jesus. Then he refers to the hostile Jewish reference to Jesus and he mixes up Tacitus referring to Jesus being crucified by Pilate (which I credit and is no evidence that he resurrected and confusing that with washing his hands as in the Gospels.

Then he says 'believe what you like - go and research for yourself. He is in pretty deep crap. He's appeals to the outside sources. Josephus (assuming the Flavian testament is genuine - where did he hear this from? From Paul, he says. So he is quoting from a non independent source. The same with Tacitus, I reckon.

So we get to why accept evidence for Washington or Napoleon but not the Gospels? The evidence for those is massive and complementary. The gospels are nothing like that.

Now we are on asking the atheist questions about the validity of he believes. And now this damn malware -block is interrupting so I'll have to leave it there. But the fellow is evading, dancing and appealing to trusting what's in the gospels as reliable. Which is what it comes down to in the end.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-28-2020 at 11:32 PM..
 
Old 03-29-2020, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
Reputation: 2087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
PineCreek interviews someone from his Youtube Comment section

Description: "I found Nick in my Youtube Comment section and he seemed very passionate about his beliefs and eager to talk. So I invited him on my livestream."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5As0tzE0s

Topics covered w/ timecodes:

3:39 Are the gospels historical narrative, reading like a newspaper?


No. The gospels are contradictory allegories with a fictional Jesus making the theological arguments of the authors of the gospels. Not one of the gospels are independent of the others except Mark (because that was written before the others existed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
52:15 Do we really have eye witness evidence of Jesus?
No. Only John pretends to be an eyewitness account, but is clearly rewriting the synoptic gospels for his own theological agenda.
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