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You're being dishonest. There is no "demand". We merely state our position.
this post is dishonest. When you get out maneuvered using science/engineering you shun, will call us names, then finally run away. Oh right, but you didn't make any demands.
no wonder some of us have to send our kids to believing schools. You militant style atheist admins destroyed our schools and stole their future. All in the name of forcing your statement of belief about god on the rest of us.
You and the fundy's can't see it has nothing to do with what a person believes about a god or not.
I don't think any of them has claimed that "no God" status must be the default for everybody. If they have, it must have been a casual comment and not a primary theme.
Posted by MysticPhD
The atheists in the forum have been spending virtually all their efforts in refuting your black and white definition of atheism because they need to avoid providing proof or evidence of their default assumption of "No God."
mensaguy: That "no evidence" thing is precisely the reason they say the default position is "No God." Since Atheism is a negative position and you can't prove a negative, there is nothing to prove about Atheism. https://www.city-data.com/forum/reli...l#post54451627
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So despite my offer to have an actual conversation based on a very specific area of WLC's apologetics, this is what you come back with? It seems to me that your interest isn't actually in R&S, but in attempting to chastise people for their opinions. I could be wrong, I am only judging you on this recent exchange.
Live now...
The Kalam Cosmological Argument
David Wood (Acts 17 Apologetics) and Braxton Hunter (Trinity Radio) will be LIVE at 8:00pm Eastern Time, discussing the Kalam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God.
The Kalam Cosmological Argument
David Wood (Acts 17 Apologetics) and Braxton Hunter (Trinity Radio) will be LIVE at 8:00pm Eastern Time, discussing the Kalam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God.
You obviously misunderstood me.
I was offering to have a discussion with you, not to look at an endless stream of videos.
I dislike watching youtube videos as a general rule, I would much rather interact with people.
My offer to discuss is still open, I will throw in the caveat that I will not review any videos as part of the discussion.
No, it is not a mere opinion. It is asserted as the basic position from which the question of the existence of God MUST be evaluated and you know it. Trying to coyly pretend atheists do not maintain it is the fundamental position underpinning the God issue is disingenuous and deceptive. Simultaneously asserting that "we do not know" while also asserting that the position that must be assumed is "No God" is untenable and disingenuous.
It is no more a demand that the COUNTLESS posts where you have put forth your personal little belief.
Oh, I agree. It is a fundamental position. But that is not a demand.
I was offering to have a discussion with you, not to look at an endless stream of videos.
I dislike watching youtube videos as a general rule, I would much rather interact with people.
My offer to discuss is still open, I will throw in the caveat that I will not review any videos as part of the discussion.
His barrage of videos is a simple confession that he does nor have the intellectual tools to discuss the issues on his own.
So when I pointed out that the cosmos may in fact be eternal, he ignored it. Because if the cosmos is eternal, the Kalaam is toast right out of the gate.
We can easily envision an eternal universe going forward. Tomorrow just happens. Forever. But we can just as easily apply the concept to yesterday. In which case you no longer need the God invention at all. It simply loses its engine and purpose.
And those who are made new (i find the born again trope so insipid), lose their maker. An emotional loss that can’t be considered, much less accepted.
His barrage of videos is a simple confession that he does nor have the intellectual tools to discuss the issues on his own.
You may be correct, but it seems fair to let IWMN have an opportunity to prove it one way or the other.
Quote:
So when I pointed out that the cosmos may in fact be eternal, he ignored it. Because if the cosmos is eternal, the Kalaam is toast right out of the gate.
We can easily envision an eternal universe going forward. Tomorrow just happens. Forever. But we can just as easily apply the concept to yesterday. In which case you no longer need the God invention at all. It simply loses its engine and purpose.
And those who are made new (i find the born again trope so insipid), lose their maker. An emotional loss that can’t be considered, much less accepted.
You are certainly correct here, if the reason one is a Christian is the Kalaam. I personally find it hard to believe that this argument convinced anybody to the point that they base their entire worldview upon it. What I have found is that people will advance Kalaam, or Pascal's Wager, or some other logical argument, but they generally do it as a debate tactic, not because that is what actually convinced them. It does seem that people who are theists for emotional reasons, or because of personal revelation, are attracted to these arguments because they reinforce currently held beliefs, and they sound very logical, scientific and convincing.
In any case, it has been a bit over a day since I offered IWMN a sincere discussion, s/he has posted multiple times on this thread, even responding to my direct post. All without actually addressing my offer in any way. It seems that IWMN is not interested in a discussion at all, and is merely interested in preaching by way of offering videos.
I would love to be proven wrong, but so far it seems to be the case.
Fair warning, I tried this a year ago with jeffbase. He wrote one post and ghosted, then complained bitterly when I mentioned this on the forum because he had some odd thought that the DM conversation was completely private and should never be referred to.
I am ok with a DM conversation. My topic proposal still holds, specifically how do you get from Kalaam's first cause to Christian God. Go ahead and send me a message any time.
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