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Old 09-14-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,200,586 times
Reputation: 21745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
there is a "universal truth" about whether we as humans have an eternal soul that exists after the death of the physical body. it either does or it doesn't. however that "fact" can not be established at this time one way or the other.
That fact has been established and there is no soul.

The existence of a soul stems from the attempts of ignorant people to explain what makes humans go.

These people did not know what a "cell" was and had never seen a cell. In fact, it would not be until the year 1607 when a human actually saw the first cell.

It would be three more centuries before humans discovered the existence of hormones and enzymes in the human body.

It would be several more decades before humans began to discover how the brain actually works, and even then that knowledge would be partial; not complete.

We now know that highly specialized cells in the brain interact chemically to produce consciousness.

The ancient Greeks did not know that, and so they believed that a "soul" is what produced consciousness.

So, all beliefs in a soul are predicated on sheer ignorance and thus are false beliefs and nothing more.

We also know that nothing unreal exists. Since a soul is unreal, it does not exist.

And, we also know that everything that exists occupies space and time, and since a soul occupies neither -- and it cannot since it doesn't exist -- a soul does not exist.

Everything that exists does one of three things: it radiates energy, absorbs energy or re-radiates energy it has absorbed.

If humans had a soul, it would have been detected decades ago.

Also, in order to exist, it must have some structural form or organization. If it has no structural form or organization, then it does what everything else in the Universe does, and that is dissipate in all directions.

So, your soul is literally scattered in the winds and no longer exists in any coherent form.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:07 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 394,467 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That fact has been established and there is no soul.


Since a soul is unreal, it does not exist.


If humans had a soul, it would have been detected decades ago.

Also, in order to exist, it must have some structural form or organization. If it has no structural form or organization,
.
God & The Angels often explain to people in dreams & spiritual encounters that people's souls are brought to earth from their original bodies which are held in suspended animation back at the source, & placed into human bodies to live as mortals without spiritual powers & learn about good & evil.

God sometimes shows me the souls He is taking to Heaven & they look like beautiful gems. Sometimes God fills my entire house with souls & they all are like coloured orbs floating in the air speaking to each other telepathically. It is a real surprise when God does that & it is nothing I would of ever expected happening in a million years.

Also God takes my soul out of my body all the time. Thousands of times in fact.

I read a book years ago that explained how anyone could leave their body & travel in the spirit world, & then return to their body because there was a cord connecting the two & keeping the soul safe. I thought that sounded like real fun, so I lay down on my back on the floor in the main room, in the middle of the bright day, & proceeded to force myself out of my body.
Instantly a group of bright angels appeared all around me & one of them spoke in a beautiful voice & said "It is not time yet. You must stay in your body".
I found that I could bring the angels back at any time any day simply by trying to lift my soul out of my body. The angels started taking me out of my body & letting me fly around after a while. They taught me vast amounts of information about the soul.

Basically the soul is like an orb of plasma or energy that has mass. It has been measured by science who noted that people lose weight the second they die. Something with real cold hard weight leaves their body at death.

Also there are video recordings of people's souls leaving their body at death & flying away, & videos of guardian angels coming & going from people's rooms at night. There is limitless proof that souls & spiritual beings exist my dear fellow. It's time for you to wake up & smell the coffee sleepy head
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:28 PM
 
63,929 posts, read 40,194,112 times
Reputation: 7887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That fact has been established and there is no soul.

The existence of a soul stems from the attempts of ignorant people to explain what makes humans go.

These people did not know what a "cell" was and had never seen a cell. In fact, it would not be until the year 1607 when a human actually saw the first cell.

It would be three more centuries before humans discovered the existence of hormones and enzymes in the human body.

It would be several more decades before humans began to discover how the brain actually works, and even then that knowledge would be partial; not complete.

We now know that highly specialized cells in the brain interact chemically to produce consciousness.

The ancient Greeks did not know that, and so they believed that a "soul" is what produced consciousness.

So, all beliefs in a soul are predicated on sheer ignorance and thus are false beliefs and nothing more.

We also know that nothing unreal exists. Since a soul is unreal, it does not exist.

And, we also know that everything that exists occupies space and time, and since a soul occupies neither -- and it cannot since it doesn't exist -- a soul does not exist.

Everything that exists does one of three things: it radiates energy, absorbs energy or re-radiates energy it has absorbed.

If humans had a soul, it would have been detected decades ago.

Also, in order to exist, it must have some structural form or organization. If it has no structural form or organization, then it does what everything else in the Universe does, and that is dissipated in all directions.

So, your soul is literally scattered in the winds and no longer exists in any coherent form.
As usual, you make unsubstantiated claims for our current knowledge and capabilities. The bold about detecting our soul is among them. The universe has been expanding at an accelerated rate since the Big Bang but we still cannot detect and directly measure the dark energy that is making it happen. Galaxies have been forming for billions of years and being sustained by gravitational mass (dark matter) that we still cannot detect and directly measure. In fact, the undetectable and unmeasurable percentage of our universe comprised of those two phenomena is 95+%. We can only indirectly detect them by their effects on what we can measure so we do not even know what they are. The same is true for our consciousness. We can only indirectly measure its existence by its effects and through self-reports. Asserting that your consciousness has no structural form or organization is simply wrong. Without such cognitive structure and organization, you would not be able to converse or think about anything. Your naive' presumption that structure and organization only exist in physical entities is laughable.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:51 PM
 
1,402 posts, read 479,056 times
Reputation: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
Also God takes my soul out of my body all the time. Thousands of times in fact.
I'm curious... what does he do with it when he takes your soul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean777 View Post
Basically the soul is like an orb of plasma or energy that has mass. It has been measured by science who noted that people lose weight the second they die. Something with real cold hard weight leaves their body at death.
This is not true. That claim stems from a sloppy experiment conducted in 1901 that purportedly showed that people lost an average of 21 grams at the time of death, which was attributed to the soul leaving the body. The results were debunked almost immediately, and have no scientific validity.

BUT... it might be an interesting experiment if you could weigh yourself before and after God takes your soul. You would apparently have 1000s of data points, which could help resolve the question. Just a thought...
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:15 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 394,467 times
Reputation: 185
well scientists have a motive for covering up spiritual truths, so I don't believe the experiment was flawed that badly; if at all. Millions of people report their beds sinking down as a spiritual being sits on the bed beside them. That is proof that spiritual beings have weight & mass
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:30 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,089 posts, read 20,781,990 times
Reputation: 5931
I always feel it is a sorta final nail in the coffin of a theist apologists's credibility when they dismiss the findings of science by implying that that it is a scientific conspiracy to cover up religious truth. The classic one was a former poster (Old hands will remember him) who accused science of covering up that evolution claims that cats come from dogs, which doesn't work and falsely claiming that it is a gradual change through genetic mutation, which does.

Many have claimed that a demon was pressing down on them so they couldn't get up. I have experienced this odd effect of waking up and wanting to get up by being unable to make my bod. respond. Eventually it does. Whatever the cause of this, I just don't believe it is a 'demon'. I can't recall too many claims of spirit beings sitting on the bed beside them (let alone 'Millions') but whatever is going on here, the claim can't be just accepted at face value, even if we suppose that the existence of demons or angels of invisible aliens having weight (a debatable claim within theist dogma, I'm sure) means that we have to have a soul.

Just too many plonking Faith-claims, chum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As usual, you make unsubstantiated claims for our current knowledge and capabilities. The bold about detecting our soul is among them. The universe has been expanding at an accelerated rate since the Big Bang but we still cannot detect and directly measure the dark energy that is making it happen. Galaxies have been forming for billions of years and being sustained by gravitational mass (dark matter) that we still cannot detect and directly measure. In fact, the undetectable and unmeasurable percentage of our universe comprised of those two phenomena is 95+%. We can only indirectly detect them by their effects on what we can measure so we do not even know what they are. The same is true for our consciousness. We can only indirectly measure its existence by its effects and through self-reports. Asserting that your consciousness has no structural form or organization is simply wrong. Without such cognitive structure and organization, you would not be able to converse or think about anything. Your naive' presumption that structure and organization only exist in physical entities is laughable.
Sorry Mystic. You are again misusing analogy. That Dark matter is unmeasurable but exists does not validate all sorts of other claims for things existing that we can't measure. Even if those statements are true (1).

The organisation of consciousness of course comes from the brain that operates it. That it exists anywhere outside of our individual bodies is of course a claim that requires more substantiattion than your Faith -based say - so.

(1)I seem to recall that a poster showed that your assertions about EM energy related to the brain were wrong, AND that not long afterwards you posted the same wrong claim yet again. The time is long gone when your assertions could be given much credibility.

And to think that I was in half a mind to not respond and just leave you to Mircea.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-14-2019 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:26 PM
 
63,929 posts, read 40,194,112 times
Reputation: 7887
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Sorry Mystic. You are again misusing analogy. That Dark matter is unmeasurable but exists does not validate all sorts of other claims for things existing that we can't measure. Even if those statements are true (1).

The organization of consciousness, of course, comes from the brain that operates it. That it exists anywhere outside of our individual bodies is, of course, a claim that requires more substantiation than your Faith-based say - so.

(1)I seem to recall that a poster showed that your assertions about EM energy related to the brain were wrong, AND that not long afterward you posted the same wrong claim yet again. The time is long gone when your assertions could be given much credibility.

And to think that I was in half a mind to not respond and just leave you to Mircea.
You keep misidentifying the EM-Like nature of consciousness with measurable EM phenomena, They are NOT the same because the EM-Like consciousness energy is "dark" like the two other unmeasurable phenomena. You refuse to acknowledge that the composite of brain activity that comprises YOU (the thinking reasoning entity) is an energy form manifesting within our Reality that is NOT an illusion. Why you so easily dismiss your own existence as an illusion is mind-boggling.
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:31 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 394,467 times
Reputation: 185
If the experiment to weigh the soul was not valid then it means nothing to me. I believed the reports when I heard them but if they are false then it is of no importance.

We hear of science covering up ufo's all the time. Pilots are forbidden from mentioning the many technologically advanced ufo's they see because it proves our own science & military is dumb.
And much new scientific inventions & gadgets including time travel devices are constantly being covered up by the governments.

It's all about protecting people's interests. Even the church covers up spiritual matters that they do not want the people knowing about.
So cover ups do happen & maybe it happened with the weighing of the soul experiment. Maybe the church covered it up because of religious reasons? It seems like an easy experiment to do.

Either way it means nothing to me.

My Cat stares at big orbs that are moving around the room. So even he sees them. Egyptian art is full of orbs being carried by the gods. The orbs are people's souls.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:25 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,089 posts, read 20,781,990 times
Reputation: 5931
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You keep misidentifying the EM-Like nature of consciousness with measurable EM phenomena, They are NOT the same because the EM-Like consciousness energy is "dark" like the two other unmeasurable phenomena.
I'm sure that it was this kind of claim about RM energy was shown to be wrong. And you repeated the error and are evidently doing it again. Wasn't it..yes sure..mental EM energy IS measurable (2). I'll check that.

"Mental energy exists, if you consider the electric activity generated by the brain as “mental energy”. It is measurable by EEG, and can be altered/affected with modern, non-invasive apparatus such as transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) which can change the electric charge in selected parts of the brain. It is currently used to cure depression." (Quora (1)
Quote:
You refuse to acknowledge that the composite of brain activity that comprises YOU (the thinking reasoning entity) is an energy form manifesting within our Reality that is NOT an illusion. Why you so easily dismiss your own existence as an illusion is mind-boggling.
You betray your continual perverse misrepresentation though deliberate misunderstanding and strawmanning of what i said. The laughable thing is that one of the points of your argument is that everything we 'Know' is subjective. In fact you see ti be saying yourself that everything as it appears to us in an illusion caused by human subjectivity. Which is all I was ever saying. I have never doubted that Reality exists on it's own predictable and reliable terms. Indeed I have said so many times.

(1) the first answer was that 'mental energy' doesn't exist, but this was referring to the feelings of being exhausted by worry or illness or tiredness. I suspect there are real physical effects behind this, in any case.

(2) cue 'Oh that is only an Analogy of the Mystical science that I'm talking about, which I know about through Mystical revelation'. Don't even think about it.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-14-2019 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 09-15-2019, 05:32 AM
 
7,600 posts, read 4,176,287 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Mostly agree and where I don't is mostly semantics but I'm glad to read yet another take on what these Ten Truths attempt to convey, even if done piecemeal...
I did it by piecemeal because I think what people challenge is how the pursuit of truth is done.
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