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Old 04-16-2020, 10:35 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
Am I to understand that "universal truths" are widely agree-upon facts?
Frankly, I'm not sure you are to understand.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:47 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,470,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew View Post
Am I to understand that "universal truths" are widely agree-upon facts?
thats probably the best we can do. But people confuse "universal truth" to mean static and unchanging. They lose sight that our "universal truths" can change as we learn and grow about what the universe actually is.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:58 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
thats probably the best we can do. But people confuse "universal truth" to mean static and unchanging. They lose sight that our "universal truths" can change as we learn and grow about what the universe actually is.
True of the universal truths we have yet to better understand. Not true of the universal truths we understand well enough to establish as fact, truth, beyond any reasonable doubt. Thanks for helping me to clarify.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:06 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,470,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
True of the universal truths we have yet to better understand. Not true of the universal truths we understand well enough to establish as fact, truth, beyond any reasonable doubt. Thanks for helping me to clarify.
yuppers ...

I look at them like foundations. we have the best we have to use. Some of them, like QM and E=MC^2, are not perfect but we can assume that they hold true anywhere in the universe that is operating within limits of what we know about them.

Things not as straight forward, but are probably just as valid, are things like not causing unnecessary suffering to objects that process suffering in a way that it appears to hurt them. That probably holds up anywhere that objects are "aware" for rational people.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:53 AM
 
15,801 posts, read 6,861,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Frankly, I'm not sure you are to understand.
Quote:
Am I to understand that "universal truths" are widely agree-upon facts?

Why are you evading what is a valid question considering your idea of 'universal truths" is questionable?
Are widely agreeable facts universal truths? Are there more than one truth based on these widely agreeable facts?
Perhaps an example of the truths based on a set of widely agreed facts will provide some clarity?
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:58 AM
 
15,801 posts, read 6,861,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
True of the universal truths we have yet to better understand. Not true of the universal truths we understand well enough to establish as fact, truth, beyond any reasonable doubt. Thanks for helping me to clarify.
What are universal truths we have yet to better understand? Are you sure you can call something a universal truth when you dont understand it? Can you give an example?
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:08 PM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008 View Post
Why are you evading what is a valid question considering your idea of 'universal truths" is questionable?
Are widely agreeable facts universal truths? Are there more than one truth based on these widely agreeable facts?
Perhaps an example of the truths based on a set of widely agreed facts will provide some clarity?
I'm not evading the question. I'm evading the person asking it for more than few reasons I won't get into anymore. Since YOU are interested, however, I'll attempt what I hope is also not a complete waste of time and lost cause...

Right. Who am I kidding as I remind myself I've already wasted too much time here again this morning, but before I sign off, I'll thank you if your question is born out of sincere interest to better understand. I think I've answered this sort of question more than a few times in this thread already, but unfortunately the aversion to accept the simple is ongoing. Why is that I wonder?

Universal truths are simply facts, either already established as fact or yet to be recognized as such.

Again the simple dictionary definition: "Truth, that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality."

If you really need examples of facts or truth, I'm either not understanding what you want or your aversion to accept the simple and obvious is also getting in the way due to some sort of biased way of thinking I doubt I'm able to change or overcome.

I'm not a miracle worker, but if you really do need examples, please explain why and I'll do my best to help further the understanding here as best I can perhaps tomorrow, but until then, really?
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
27,881 posts, read 29,679,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Fair enough, but if you can help me understand how what we learn about truth establishes that "remainder" to be God or anything supernatural, I remain interested...

Ashamed? Pride should not be a part of how we come to understand truth.
No, I probably can't, because it would require you to have to rely to some extent on faith, and that's something you don't seem to want to do. Besides, even if you were to be willing to concede that there are certain "truths" that are impossible to understand through science, you'd have to accept these truths to be be your own relative truths, and I don't think that would satisfy you. Faith works for me; it may not work for you at all. I can't even explain why I believe some of the things I do, and it's frustrating to even try. It's that, not shame, that makes me reticent to engage in a dialogue on the subject.

Quote:
Goethe is an interesting story. Do you know much about him? "The great heathen." Something of a naturalist as well, who rejected all Christian churches and their teachings?
I don't. My dad, who was a professor of German and Humanities knew a great deal about him and really liked his works. Personally, his beliefs about God don't seem to me to play into this at all. The quote I gave is equally valid for believers and non-believers, IMO.

Some people can simply dismiss the "remainder" and go about living as if it didn't matter. Others can anxiously await some scientific discovery that will clear matters up once and for all. And still others -- like me -- are willing to involve the existence of a Higher Power in trying to make sense of these things, because we are committed to the idea that not only does God exist, but that He is a personal God who knows and loves each and every one of us. I understand, really I do, how that may sound to someone who doesn't believe as strongly as I do in such a God. Honestly, I have pretty much concluded that a person can't will himself to believe any more than a person can will himself not to believe. For this reason, I almost never let people into that part of me. It's almost as if my belief in God is part of my DNA. Trust me, even though I was taught about God by my parents, ours was not a home where God and sin and Heaven and Hell and miracles, etc. were spoken of much at all.

At any rate, I appreciate the fact that you've at least been respectful of my beliefs, and that you've given me an opportunity to express myself. I just don't know that there's much more for me to say that I haven't already said.
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,154 posts, read 23,799,416 times
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LearnMe is one of our better posters.

I appreciate his ten truths, not because I necessarily agree with all what he has put together, but because he has taken the time to develop a coherent statement of his philosophy.

When I used to be interviewing teacher candidates, one part of the process was a "written" statement of educational philosophy. Half of it had to be written on the computer, and half written by hand. The process was often an eye-opener.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:27 PM
 
18,768 posts, read 27,196,342 times
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There is only one Truth.
That being Reality, or Now.
The rest is set of opinions every human being has, based on ever changing set of information, usually false, that human acquires.
If one is in pursuit of The Truth, all one needs to do is to be in Now.

What is VERY hard to achieve and was accomplished only by few in human history.....


PS. Per its definition, Truth IS only one. There may be not multiple truths.
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