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Old 12-20-2021, 09:26 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
knowing something, understanding, is not acquired by someone "giving it to you."
it is acquired by a person actively engaging, participating, validating, and verifying.

otherwise it remains hearsay.
hearsay = taking someone else's word for it
Mere say so as well...

True again. It is up to all of us as individuals to distinguish what is fact and what is not. Simple as that. No one can do that for you, though there are lots of disciplines, facts, research, professionals and other sources of knowledge and information that can all be significant help when it comes to establishing what is fact and what is not. Lots of information or misinformation that can be the opposite as well. This too we must judge as best we can.

Not sure why these obvious truths are being explained here yet again, but needless to say we are all called upon to think about what to believe and what not to believe.
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Old 12-20-2021, 09:27 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter600 View Post
If I go out and look at the horizon the Earth seems flat (with a few undulations). That is my direct, first person perception.

There is a whole load of evidence the Earth is not flat. But that is all independent evidence - photographs, third party accounts, scientific calculations, models. None of that is my direct perception.

So should I stick with my direct perceptions, or independently verify and validate my perceptions? You may disagree, but I think I would be a fool to merely trust my perception without independent validation.
Good question. Good point.
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Old 12-20-2021, 09:44 AM
 
21,869 posts, read 19,019,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Mere say so as well...True again. It is up to all of us as individuals to distinguish what is fact and what is not. Simple as that. No one can do that for you, though there are lots of disciplines, facts, research, professionals and other sources of knowledge and information that can all be significant help when it comes to establishing what is fact and what is not. Lots of information or misinformation that can be the opposite as well. This too we must judge as best we can. Not sure why these obvious truths are being explained here yet again, but needless to say we are all called upon to think about what to believe and what not to believe.
it is a fact that
the ten items are not facts.
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Old 12-20-2021, 11:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
it is a fact that
the ten items are not facts.
Now Tzap...

Surely you can do better than this?

Though at this point as I sign off now for the day, I really have no false expectations along these lines from you anymore. All the best to you too in any case.
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Old 12-20-2021, 04:13 PM
 
Location: NEW YORK
60 posts, read 20,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Mere say so as well...

True again. It is up to all of us as individuals to distinguish what is fact and what is not. Simple as that. No one can do that for you, though there are lots of disciplines, facts, research, professionals and other sources of knowledge and information that can all be significant help when it comes to establishing what is fact and what is not. Lots of information or misinformation that can be the opposite as well. This too we must judge as best we can.

Not sure why these obvious truths are being explained here yet again, but needless to say we are all called upon to think about what to believe and what not to believe.
Exactly. I second that line of thinking. At the end of the day whatever one deducts to be the truth for him/herself is what counts after conferring with his own intellect and analyzing, meditating, and questioning all available sources of information. Then, the path one chooses to engage is their own road regardless where it leads to.
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Old 12-21-2021, 09:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc4max View Post
Exactly. I second that line of thinking. At the end of the day whatever one deducts to be the truth for him/herself is what counts after conferring with his own intellect and analyzing, meditating, and questioning all available sources of information. Then, the path one chooses to engage is their own road regardless where it leads to.
No doubt everyone agrees with this simple truth, but also of course it is the wrong-thinking and false conclusions by some that always becomes the issue. The issue for all concerned when wrong-thinking and false conclusion leaves the privacy of one's own home and spills out into the world of others.
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Old 12-21-2021, 11:55 AM
 
21,869 posts, read 19,019,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
No doubt everyone agrees with this simple truth, but also of course it is the wrong-thinking and false conclusions by some that always becomes the issue. The issue for all concerned when wrong-thinking and false conclusion leaves the privacy of one's own home and spills out into the world of others.
would you consider the list of ten items to be "spilling out into the world of others" since it is posted on an international public forum for public discussion around the world? and on a regular ongoing basis asks and invites and seeks and solicits readers for comments and input?

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-21-2021 at 12:17 PM..
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Old 12-21-2021, 12:15 PM
 
63,402 posts, read 39,647,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
No doubt everyone agrees with this simple truth, but also of course it is the wrong-thinking and false conclusions by some that always becomes the issue. The issue for all concerned when wrong-thinking and false conclusion leaves the privacy of one's own home and spills out into the world of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
would you consider the list of ten items to be "spilling out into the world of others" since it is posted on an international public forum for public discussion around the world? and on a regular ongoing basis asks and invites readers for comments and input?
Calling them Truths would seem to qualify as "spilling out into the world of others."
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Old 12-23-2021, 10:55 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
would you consider the list of ten items to be "spilling out into the world of others" since it is posted on an international public forum for public discussion around the world? and on a regular ongoing basis asks and invites and seeks and solicits readers for comments and input?
I suppose I rather prefer my list of ten to "spill out into the world of others," though I am not fool enough to think sharing them here is of any consequence. Preferred because I invite the exchange of opinion with respect to their truth and/or with regard to whether doing so is for the better or worse.

Note my prior comment about "spilling out into the world" was to express concern about all notions that spill out to others that are based on wrong-thinking and/or lead to false conclusion. Not that there is any problem with spilling good out into the world. Interesting that you again quote or edit only the parts of these comments that don't really capture the full meaning of these comments.

What I wrote verbatim again is this; "The issue for all concerned when wrong-thinking and false conclusion leaves the privacy of one's own home and spills out into the world of others."

I don't put my Ten Truths in this category. Quite the contrary in fact, as explained by my Ten Truths. Explained as best I could manage when I wrote them many decades ago. I appreciate the question BTW and this chance to explain yet again...
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Old 12-23-2021, 11:01 AM
 
29,335 posts, read 9,503,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Calling them Truths would seem to qualify as "spilling out into the world of others."
Indeed, and I have addressed the issue about what to call them too many times to count as well. Do please have mercy...

With the more intelligent people like you, I have at least the hope that we not be forced to repeat ourselves quite this often. Nevertheless, I'll repeat myself again. It really doesn't matter to me what anyone wants to call my Ten Truths. What matters to me is whether what I explain is true or not. Also why anyone thinks so specifically.
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