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Old 09-12-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,175 posts, read 26,226,903 times
Reputation: 27919

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Yes. I agree! Meaningless to go on about such things rather than address the strengths and/or weaknesses of any argument in a calm, collected and reasonable manner. With facts, reason and logic rather than other nonsense that only deflects from the topic at hand and causes a "delay of game."
I believe I did but you won't address it... just would rather consider it a deflection.
Perhaps you should post it on the Philosophy forum rather than here.
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,191,292 times
Reputation: 21743
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
TEN TRUTHS
Ten beliefs. Truth is objective and universal, not subjective and limited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
One reality is as we perceive it to be,...
Congratulations for conflating perception with reality and dooming your own argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
TWO: Human beings cannot know all that exists in the universe.
That's an artificial limitation placed by you upon Humans.

It makes the false assumption that Evolution has ceased, when it has not. The brain is one organ that has continuously evolved, and you cannot know that future evolution may result in a brain superior to our current one that is capable of more in-depth understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
THREE: The first reality for human beings manifests itself in all the great many beliefs and faiths throughout the world;...
The first reality is survival, not belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
FOUR: The second reality, all that exists in the universe, known or unknown, is disclosed to Man most accurately and peacefully by way of well documented history (rather than religious books) and empirical science (rather than theology).
Actually, it is war, conflict and competition that spurs innovation, not peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
FIVE: Faith is spawned from the human inclination to speculate or suppose beyond universal truth as determined and defined by science.
No, faith is spawned by ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
SIX: Man's ability to theorize is a faculty that allows Man to advance toward greater awareness and understanding of universal truth.
That is the only accurate statement you've made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
SEVEN: Science is the most universally accepted effort to arrive at truth with no agenda other than greater knowledge and understanding of universal truth for all human beings.
That's a false statement. Science often has an agenda.

Eugenics. Climate change. Nuclear weapons and related weapons systems.

Those are all agenda-driven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
EIGHT: Science fosters the peace of a universal patience and acceptance of our common condition and experience as humans.
Science does neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
NINE: Faith can and does promote goodwill between some people.
Faith does not promote good will.

Murdering people for not converting to christianity is not good will.

Having christians hideously torture and/or murder other christians for not believing "the right way" is not good will.

Having faith in witches and murdering 8 Million women for being witches is not good will.

Imposing a rigid hierarchical social class system is not good will.

I can go on for days, but you should get the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
TEN: People of faith will deny if not condemn these truths for many reasons; from fear of god to fear of no god.
I deny them and I'm an Atheist, so that debunks your claim.
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:40 PM
 
29,554 posts, read 9,751,103 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
oh yeah, thanks for keeping that on the radar oldcold.
i totally agree.
Really?

Given all the comments of all nature including yours specifically addressing these truths in the context of this forum topic, whether agreed upon or not, surely there is already enough evidence that most people have no problem discussing these truths in this context. Why all the effort to address these truths as you do at least Tzap, then suggest the discussion is somehow not appropriate?

Seems your radar points toward an intolerance for difference of opinion. Clearly that's where oldcold is coming from, but why not let others discuss these issues if they are so inclined here? There is no need for anyone to participate in a thread they don't like for whatever their reasons. Right? Why instead of simply taking up threads you find more to your liking do you work to undermine those about opinion different from yours?

Why prove my Tenth Truth rather than "live and let live" in a mature, intelligent and reasonable manner?
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:43 PM
 
29,554 posts, read 9,751,103 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
I believe I did but you won't address it... just would rather consider it a deflection.
Perhaps you should post it on the Philosophy forum rather than here.
No deflection intended, but why not here? Who can't understand that my Ten Truths are all about religion, spirituality and truth?
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:45 PM
 
29,554 posts, read 9,751,103 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Ten beliefs. Truth is objective and universal, not subjective and limited.
Good to see you too! Seems a visit from all the usual characters, but where's the new blood?

As always, you always provide plenty to chew on and with just a quick scan I'm not sure if anything new, but I'm really out of time now, so thanks again and maybe tomorrow I'll be able to pick up where I/we left off...

Cheers!
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:56 PM
 
22,280 posts, read 19,267,501 times
Reputation: 18343
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Really?

Given all the comments of all nature including yours specifically addressing these truths in the context of this forum topic, whether agreed upon or not, surely there is already enough evidence that most people have no problem discussing these truths in this context. Why all the effort to address these truths as you do at least Tzap, then suggest the discussion is somehow not appropriate?

Seems your radar points toward an intolerance for difference of opinion. Clearly that's where oldcold is coming from, but why not let others discuss these issues if they are so inclined here? There is no need for anyone to participate in a thread they don't like for whatever their reasons. Right? Why instead of simply taking up threads you find more to your liking do you work to undermine those about opinion different from yours?

Why prove my Tenth Truth rather than "live and let live" in a mature, intelligent and reasonable manner?
the premise that there is no such a thing as "universal truth" in religion and spirituality is what old cold is bringing up. that I agree with. just as there is no such thing as "universal truth" in music, in food, in sports, in art, in literature. No "universal truth" in beauty, in courage, in integrity, in compassion.

what old cold is asking and it is a valid question, if you only consider valid that which is within the scope of "history" and "science" then that has nothing to do with religion and spirituality. so it doesn't belong in this forum. except to say why you don't like it which is your opinion.

an opinion is not fact. an opinion is not universal. an opinion is not universal truth. an opinion is what you believe. but that does not make it true for everyone. so the list is your ten beliefs. your ten opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
All I've asked for more than once are some examples, or even one, of a universal truth that has to do with religion or spirituality. So far...…...none.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:12 PM
 
63,888 posts, read 40,164,479 times
Reputation: 7883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Ten beliefs. Truth is objective and universal, not subjective and limited.
Congratulations for conflating perception with reality and dooming your own argument.
That's an artificial limitation placed by you upon Humans.
It makes the false assumption that Evolution has ceased, when it has not. The brain is one organ that has continuously evolved, and you cannot know that future evolution may result in a brain superior to our current one that is capable of more in-depth understanding.
The first reality is survival, not belief.
Actually, it is war, conflict and competition that spurs innovation, not peace.
No, faith is spawned by ignorance.
That is the only accurate statement you've made.
That's a false statement. Science often has an agenda.
Eugenics. Climate change. Nuclear weapons and related weapons systems.
Those are all agenda-driven.
Science does neither.
Faith does not promote good will.
Murdering people for not converting to christianity is not good will.
Having christians hideously torture and/or murder other christians for not believing "the right way" is not good will.
Having faith in witches and murdering 8 Million women for being witches is not good will.
Imposing a rigid hierarchical social class system is not good will.
I can go on for days, but you should get the point.
I deny them and I'm an Atheist, so that debunks your claim.
We seldom agree at all, but your critique of the Ten Beliefs seems cogent.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:42 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,334,303 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Niners had a pretty bad season last year. I don't know anyone who disputes that truth anyway...

Hope I don't end up on your ignore list (which is something I have never used), but so far anyway, it seems we might even become friends. That is if sharing the interest, want and respect for addressing these issues in an objective intelligent manner is a possible cause for a friendship.
I'm guessing your talking SF NFL. It might be true that the team had a bad year, good year or disappointing one, mostly subjected opinions and true that they played football but football itself is neither true or fiction, it's a sport..
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:48 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,334,303 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
good. then if you don't agree with all theists, then recognize the flaw in saying "religious people say this" like they all say the same thing. and if it is meaningless to point out the OP is an atheist, then it is totally meaningless to point out someone is a religious person.
Not the same. I was speaking g in a generality not a specific. I sure don't e xpect one religious person to agree with a statement from another religious one. Canadians have a reputation for being polite but that does not mean all Canadians are.

Normally I do address the words of the poster and not attribute it to the thoughts of all of that group.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:55 PM
 
19,069 posts, read 27,655,039 times
Reputation: 20284
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
I'm guessing your talking SF NFL. It might be true that the team had a bad year, good year or disappointing one, mostly subjected opinions and true that they played football but football itself is neither true or fiction, it's a sport..

THANK YOU


There is only one truth.
Reality.
Reality is the ultimate Truth by the virtue of being.
Anything that is un-true does not exist.
Any manifestations of Reality are just that - manifestations of The Truth. Just like a sport is not a truth, it is simply a sport. And opinion about a game or season is just that - subjective opinion, not "truth'.

Prejudiced opinion about something does not make it "truth'.

And, as each human exists in virtual reality created by his or her prejudiced mind, human can not possibly even conceive of any "truth". Only of mental opinion.
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