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LearnMe has written extensively, not only in this thread, but now in two threads, about his beliefs regarding what he calls the "Ten Truths". Few people who post here have been as accommodating in describing his viewpoint(s).
Failed communication is not always the fault of the messenger. It can be the fault of either the messenger OR the fault of the recipient who isn't focusing on what is being said. That was the point of a couple of courses I took in college about communication. There is no gaslighting going on. And to claim so is a personal attack.
Your insights and comments are also very much appreciated. Really, and the balance you bring is badly needed in my opinion.
I was inclined to let you respond to cb2008 and Tzap because your above reply came across as fancy footwork and I don't dance. Not when we are dealing with truths.
The manner you lumped Catholic schools banning Harry Potter with Jesuits denouncing Elvis Presley was, in my view, quite dismissive and arrogant in a careless sort of way. If you believe I am slow in the head, then lay it our for me because I gave it my best shot that first time.
So, why don't you rephrase your truth, and launch it in any number of sentences you like. I will give it another shot, and blow it out of the sky with my gun.
I've considered many a revision to my truths, but I think best to let them stand as originally posted to start this thread for a few reasons I won't get into right now...
I appreciate your interest and comments as well, but I can't say I can agree or even fully understand the negative manner in which you seem to be considering these truths. I'm certainly not asking you or anyone else to "dance" in any case. Unless you see the request for sharing other perspectives, interpretations, understandings, to be some sort of dance. I call it the sharing or promotion of other perspectives. That's all, and of course I'll respond in kind as best I am able. As always.
I didn't "lump" anything either. I provided examples that I thought served the point I was trying to make. There are many other examples along the same lines. None of which I've made up or not true. These facts are to be considered in the ways anyone might. I am always suggesting they be considered in an objective manner.
I don't think you are slow in the head just because I don't think you understand what I intend to explain in my tenth truth. Or any of the others for that matter. Believe me, you are not the first by any means and you will no doubt not be the last!
If none of this helps you to "give it another shot," then perhaps have another read from a slightly different angle if you are able. Without thinking I'm trying to be dismissive or arrogant or careless. I'm sincere and honest with regard to what I've tried to explain here, and if you knew all the time and effort that went into these truths, this thread and others, you might not be so quick to think me careless.
Many people here proselytize. Some proselytize atheism. Some proselytize a religion. Some proselytize woo.
I don't think there's a need for someone to continually cross-examine LearnMe. Cross-examination is something very different than discussing.
Thanks again, and I really don't mind either way. No matter what anyone wants to call these questions, observations and/or sharing of different points of view. No doubt some seem a little better reasoned, sincere and honest while others seem hell bent on promoting the same old angst that never seems to change, but even that additional (same old) input has it's place and value. If nothing else to demonstrate how differently people can think about such subjects, and react.
"It's all good" as they say, and what I judge to be not so good, I just try to ignore with hopes of better from someone else down the line...
we are yet to be enlightened what Universal Truth is other than a link to a spurious site that defined truth. Not Universal but just truth.
LM has no idea what that is either and he is hoping we will all in our collective wisdom will help him out and tell him what it is. we all have dug deep and have come with nothing, no Universal Truth, never mind truth with small t itself is not easy to establish. UT Does not exist.
May I suggest that perhaps you are hung up on what is truth, fact and what is not. We've been over that confusion before in another thread as well, and I came to the conclusion we're not able to bridge the gap that separates your point of view from mine.
Instead, I am simply offering up these ten truths for consideration in whatever way an honest objective observer might be wanting or willing. If it's the truth of these matters that hangs anyone up, then just consider them ten points of consideration, about how to view what I lay out in truth number one. Perhaps not so much to quibble about what is a truth and/or a fact but rather the general merit of these observations I've laid out from one to ten.
Maybe that will work better for you and others similarly challenged by the question(s) related to what is a truth or a fact.
it is astonishing in the OP how science is painted as the savior for all the ills and woes of humanity.
no wonder the thread in response to this list of ten, is "Science as Religion"
put your faith in science "with patience and acceptance" "patiently accept and embrace as revealed by science" is an exhortation and faith statement if ever there was one. oh and not just as revealed by science, but "as revealed defined or revised by science." To state the obvious: if they have to revise it, then it wasn't truth to begin with.
i read this exhortation to faith in science as a variation of 'don't worry your pretty little head over that, let science do your thinking for you, no need to think for yourself at all.' oh and that last line especially (below) turn to science have faith in science even about the things which science has not yet proven. embrace science as authority even on the topics it is mute about. hey thanks, but no thanks.
Faith statements from the opening post invoking science as savior:
"foster a greater respect for the truth as currently defined or understood by science. Science is the most universally accepted effort to arrive at truth with no agenda other than greater knowledge and understanding of universal truth for all human beings. This path or quest of scientific discovery offers the way to peace"
"Science fosters the peace of a universal patience and acceptance of our common condition and experience as humans.
"Truth is best realized and peace most successfully promoted as more people patiently accept and embrace Man's common reality as revealed, defined and/or revised by science."
"His best chance for lasting peace and true understanding of all that exists in the universe, proven or yet to be proven."
"Savior for all the ills and woes of humanity?"
Okay. Very hard for me to ignore this one, because upon careful review of my ten truths, I can't find that statement anywhere!
What is astonishing is the length to which you will go, and the manner in which you always want to argue, utterly unembarrassed by misrepresenting everything and anything you can as if there aren't at least a few of us who see just how unfair, demeaning and nasty you can be. Even in the case of a simple discussion about the views I have expressed (with MY WORDS not yours) that for lots of people are nothing like what you describe. Nothing!
I am no shepherd, and I think you mean to write you are NOT cats. Right?
Or maybe you mean to suggest you (and a few others) are cats? As in going in all different directions?
Maybe so. Maybe so.
Nothing wrong with that either far as I'm concerned...
Not sure about the ongoing use of some of these analogies, but I'm thinking we're all adult people here, and I'm not trying to corner anyone. That's been the goal of others here but not me.
start a thread if you want to discuss other paths.
this thread is to discuss the OP's own opinion view belief path that there is universal truth which all can accept and agree on, although he can't identify what that is, beyond have faith in science because it is truth including science which changes, edits, and revises what was previously truth and now is found to be oops a mistake but have faith in science anyway because world peace Elvis racism Harry Potter.
I was going to suggest you start a thread too!
But I'm not sure how far we can go with notions like to know more is to know less, or that the best teacher is one who says nothing at all, or that that oneness is allness and allness is oneness. Especially when questions about such notions are viewed as inappropriate, but hey I wouldn't object to whatever you want to start a thread about. Not like you do anyway!
If only you knew the difference between objective and subjective.
This confusion has been a problem in this thread/forum too. Right up there with the confusion about what is a fact and/or a truth. No matter how many times the obvious about these simple distinctions has been explained.
Truly an interesting observation to behold in this forum...
I've considered many a revision to my truths, but I think best to let them stand as originally posted to start this thread for a few reasons I won't get into right now...
I appreciate your interest and comments as well, but I can't say I can agree or even fully understand the negative manner in which you seem to be considering these truths. I'm certainly not asking you or anyone else to "dance" in any case. Unless you see the request for sharing other perspectives, interpretations, understandings, to be some sort of dance. I call it the sharing or promotion of other perspectives. That's all, and of course I'll respond in kind as best I am able. As always.
I didn't "lump" anything either. I provided examples that I thought served the point I was trying to make. There are many other examples along the same lines. None of which I've made up or not true. These facts are to be considered in the ways anyone might. I am always suggesting they be considered in an objective manner.
I don't think you are slow in the head just because I don't think you understand what I intend to explain in my tenth truth. Or any of the others for that matter. Believe me, you are not the first by any means and you will no doubt not be the last!
If none of this helps you to "give it another shot," then perhaps have another read from a slightly different angle if you are able. Without thinking I'm trying to be dismissive or arrogant or careless. I'm sincere and honest with regard to what I've tried to explain here, and if you knew all the time and effort that went into these truths, this thread and others, you might not be so quick to think me careless.
Your impassioned plea got to me.
Ok, let's take a look at your Truth No. 10. It declares that people of faith are ignorant and intolerant, they are impervious to the plea of logic and reason that hold the promise of progress for Man.
Did I get you right?
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