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You make a lot of assumptions and state them like facts.
Can you point me to where I made assumptions and stated them as facts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
What occurs in the world, the inhumanity, the cruelty, all the suffering is caused by us, by our aown actions. The relief to suffering also need to come from us, from out actions.
I agree that a lot of bad things that happen to people, including innocent good people, including children are caused by us. But others are clearly not. Here is where I fail to understand how one can believe in a god. If I had a child that was killed by say a freak accident or disease I would find it even more difficult to believe than I already do. Of course somebody that believes so firmly that they think they "know" might well find comfort in the thought (knowledge) that a God exists. I don't know.
I believe in God because partially because there is suffering. With nothingness, no "goalposts" if you will, then why should we even call it suffering?
I believe in good because I know there is evil. There cannot be one without the other.
If we're just clumps of cells that randomly evolved, then how could we possibly know what is right or wrong? Where does our consciousness come from? Why or how would that even come about? What difference could anything possibly make, what are we doing, why do we care? Science doesn't sufficiently explain any of that to me.
Science is cool. Science does explain a lot of basic physical stuff. I love science.
Science, however, is not all that reliable. Our scientific findings are constantly being upended by new discoveries.
Science has dark side. Nuclear weapons. Fossil fuels. Gun powder. Deadly chemicals and drugs. People thought they were doing something good when these were being discovered and developed.
Science should never be a worldview. Science should never be worshiped or treated like an alternative to things it doesn't even pretend to explain or understand.
I follow the Christian faith because I was born into it. I'll own up to that. I'm fine with it.
I realize most believers of any sort were born into that which they prescribe to. I've studied world religions and find them fascinating. I understand the similarities that many of them share. I don't pretend to have all the answers. Like science, I think there is a lot that we don't know about the origin of our religions and how they all came about. I do think there is good in having faith, seeking religion, a "reconnection" to the divine.
Thanks you for your contribution. However, I think you are oversimplifying matters.
Science does not just explain basic physical stuff. It goes much beyond that, of course. Amongst many other very complex areas, it can also help explain consciousness. See for example this article on the Biology of Consciousness https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3111444/
Of course science is never final. It is constantly evolving. Science is also neither good or bad. It's fact-based. What we use it for is up to us. Of course it's not something that should be, or even could be, worshipped.
Then the person of faith has the problem of not understanding.
Hardheadedness means we will not accept bad arguments.
As for intellectual pride, our intellect has achieved so much. We should all be proud of our intellect.
You asked, I answered and you rejected it.
Since faith, presumption or a lack of belief in the divine... is a feeling... there can be no "wrong" feeling. It's how people seek to understand and then to be understood. Belief or lack of belief is linear.
Atheism__________________________most people in world_________________________Fanatic
Notice the ends of the spectrum. Both wrong both hard headed. Stubborness is good and suggests someone is open to listening and yet sure of what they know.
Then again.... one relies on their IQ, human affirmation and the other wants to fulfill a spiritual emptiness
...
A believer seeks knowledge, converts it to wisdom and therefore increases in their faith.
A believer pretends to seek knowledge, but relies almost totally on the same old book his/her own life. He then converts the "knowledge" that he finds in that one book to fit his preconceived ideas. And therefore never learns anything new.
I agree that a lot of bad things that happen to people, including innocent good people, including children are caused by us. But others are clearly not. Here is where I fail to understand how one can believe in a god. If I had a child that was killed by say a freak accident or disease I would find it even more difficult to believe than I already do. Of course somebody that believes so firmly that they think they "know" might well find comfort in the thought (knowledge) that a God exists. I don't know.
You have a very simplistic idea of god or divinity and perhaps it is because your reference is to Christianity or the misunderstanding of it. Other religions do not have this problem. The world is what it is but it is not all that is. Anything that is born dies. Nothing is immortal except the force that holds everything together which some of us call God. You may call it something else. Death is not a punishment, it is the nature of body, it decays and dies. It can get diseases and accidents. God is not going to save you alone or your child alone or someone who is "innocent" when the way nature works is they way it works. There are no miracles.
You have a very simplistic idea of god or divinity and perhaps it is because your reference is to Christianity or the misunderstanding of it. Other religions do not have this problem. The world is what it is but it is not all that is. Anything that is born dies. Nothing is immortal except the force that holds everything together which some of us call God. You may call it something else. Death is not a punishment, it is the nature of body, it decays and dies. It can get diseases and accidents. God is not going to save you alone or your child alone or someone who is "innocent" when the way nature works is they way it works. There are no miracles.
Did god not create the nature of the body?
At least we agree...there are and never were any miracles.
Did god not create the nature of the body?
At least we agree...there are and never were any miracles.
Anything that is other than god/divinity is impermanent, subject to decay and death. Can you think of anything that is not?
That is why god is god. The world is just is, not created. some may say it is an illusion and that if you realize your true nature you will become one with god and there will be no more world, no more birth or death, no more you apart from god.
Anything that is other than god/divinity is impermanent, subject to decay and death. Can you think of anything that is not?
That is why god is god. The world is just is, not created. some may say it is an illusion and that if you realize your true nature you will become one with god and there will be no more world, no more birth or death, no more you apart from god.
Weird poll. I could say I respect several of the "belief systems" in the list - in a spiritual and philosophical sense - but none in a religious sense. And in Buddhism, I see no "religion" in it, even if I wanted that.
I'll just skip selecting, for the above reasons, and also because only one selection can be made.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 09-17-2019 at 04:59 PM..
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