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Well people's minds are shut tightly my good sister. They are gross materialists or focusing on other things. The mind is totally captivating & most all people can't see anything besides their own minds ,& the things that are filtered through it. God is right with you now & all you have to do is open your mind & He will start speaking to you. It may take a while to empty your mind of all its baggage first. But God will be there waiting till you are ready.
Yea, I have been there, done that ocean. I have had several health issues since I was in high school, with the worst being seizures due to PTSD after being sexually assaulted. I BEGGED for God to help. I BEGGED for him to show himself to me, to let me know that things would be okay. Spoiler alert, none of that happened, and I still suffer from them today. I would likely be a believer had anything happened, so either your God doesn't care about me specifically, or he isn't there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
I don't so ocean. they aren't trapped by their minds, they are trapped by their emotions. they have an emotional stake in no-god or god. Anything that doesn't align to that emotion is ignored and/or they look for a way out of being questioned.
This is just stupid, Arach. You got your boy ocean up there saying we just aren't "open", and then you come in and say, "Nah, they are just too emotional"... In reality, the vast majority of "us" are where we are, due to years and years of questioning and searching. But sure, we are just too "emotional".
Yea, I have been there, done that ocean. I have had several health issues since I was in high school, with the worst being seizures due to PTSD after being sexually assaulted. I BEGGED for God to help. I BEGGED for him to show himself to me, to let me know that things would be okay. Spoiler alert, none of that happened, and I still suffer from them today. I would likely be a believer had anything happened, so either your God doesn't care about me specifically, or he isn't there...
This is just stupid, Arach. You got your boy ocean up there saying we just aren't "open", and then you come in and say, "Nah, they are just too emotional"... In reality, the vast majority of "us" are where we are, due to years and years of questioning and searching. But sure, we are just too "emotional".
not really. Some are here due to years and years of emotional responses justifying their stance(s). And when compared to logical answers they fall short many times. weather the conclusion is 20 years old or 5 seconds old doesn't quite matter.
weather they are atheist or theist. It doesn't change it.
not really. Some are here due to years and years of emotional responses justifying their stance(s). And when compared to logical answers they fall short many times. weather the conclusion is 20 years old or 5 seconds old doesn't quite matter.
weather they are atheist or theist. It doesn't change it.
Sure, maybe there are some that are just "angry" or whatever, but the VAST majority are not. If anything, the religious are far more likely to be using emotion for justification than the non-religious. They WANT God to be real, and be what they were taught he is, so they use special pleading to keep their views. I know you LOVE to talk about how much you think atheists are like fundies, and aren't "logical", but for the vast majority, you would be dead wrong.
Only way "emotion" would play a role in becoming an atheist, is if someone believes in God, and are only pretending to be an atheist. So unless you are saying that is the case, I suggest you find an argument that makes sense.
Yea, I have been there, done that ocean. I have had several health issues since I was in high school, with the worst being seizures due to PTSD after being sexually assaulted. I BEGGED for God to help. I BEGGED for him to show himself to me, to let me know that things would be okay. Spoiler alert, none of that happened, and I still suffer from them today. I would likely be a believer had anything happened, so either your God doesn't care about me specifically, or he isn't there...
This is just stupid, Arach. You got your boy ocean up there saying we just aren't "open", and then you come in and say, "Nah, they are just too emotional"... In reality, the vast majority of "us" are where we are, due to years and years of questioning and searching. But sure, we are just too "emotional".
Thank you for posting that first paragraph, and I appreciate that you shared something so personal with us. The very few times in my life that I had a "crisis in faith" due to crises in my life, all the praying that I did, did absolutely nothing. If anything -- if there is a god -- it was god who abandoned me, not the other way around. The reason that those with blind faith (and I used that term after careful thought) put the blame on us is that it makes them feel more special. And I've heard it so many times. "I know god exists. The other day I couldn't find my keys, and I prayed, and then I found them". When I hear things like that I just shake my head and think how helpless those people are.
As to your second paragraph -- it's very easy for people to criticize "the emotional". I actually feel sorry for people who are not emotional. If they really aren't emotional, they don't feel: Anger at war. Fear for their own safety and the safety of their family. Disgust for a total lack of moral leadership. Happiness and joy for their successes in life. Sadness when a loved one dies. Surprise when unexpected good things happen to them. Contempt for the suffering of those in this world who are starving or enslaved.
Funny how you have to first believe in God, to get God to visit you or teach you... You ever wonder why that is, ocean? Seems kind of circular to me. Believing should be the last step, not the first. Otherwise, you are merely forming opinions around something you already believe.
Also, I didn't say you had to force him, only that you should ask him to pay me a visit. Let him know that if he shows up, I will drop my non-belief right then and there. All he has to do is show up. Tell him I'll be waiting on him! Oh, and can you also request that he comes in one of his disguises? Like maybe show up as Aphrodite or something? That would be sweet!
Hmm, that is a great point, Ive never thought about it like that before, This is certainly NOT what an all powerful God, creator of the entire universe, would demand from his creations...
And really, if this was true, it would be the UNBELIEVERS, who God visited or showed himself to, as these are the people he needs to convince most.
Thank you for posting that first paragraph, and I appreciate that you shared something so personal with us. The very few times in my life that I had a "crisis in faith" due to crises in my life, all the praying that I did, did absolutely nothing. If anything -- if there is a god -- it was god who abandoned me, not the other way around. The reason that those with blind faith (and I used that term after careful thought) put the blame on us is that it makes them feel more special. And I've heard it so many times. "I know god exists. The other day I couldn't find my keys, and I prayed, and then I found them". When I hear things like that I just shake my head and think how helpless those people are.
I used to shy away from sharing much of my story, but have begun to open up a bit about it. It actually seems to help a little bit to acknowledge it. My greater point, is that all these people claiming that folks like me "just aren't open" or that we haven't researched or whatever, don't know what they are talking about. Even still, I don't say with certainty there is no God, only that I will not believe without reason. I don't need to feel special, as so many seem to need (and as you pointed out above), so I am good where I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
As to your second paragraph -- it's very easy for people to criticize "the emotional". I actually feel sorry for people who are not emotional. If they really aren't emotional, they don't feel: Anger at war. Fear for their own safety and the safety of their family. Disgust for a total lack of moral leadership. Happiness and joy for their successes in life. Sadness when a loved one dies. Surprise when unexpected good things happen to them. Contempt for the suffering of those in this world who are starving or enslaved.
What sterile people they are.
Yes, exactly. They act as if showing emotion is a weakness. Like the very act means anything they do from there is somehow tainted. I am an emotional person, in general, as I am sure you guys know, but it has nothing to do with my non-belief.
Hmm, that is a great point, Ive never thought about it like that before, This is certainly NOT what an all powerful God, creator of the entire universe, would demand from his creations...
And really, if this was true, it would be the UNBELIEVERS, who God visited or showed himself to, as these are the people he needs to convince most.
Just seems like confirmation bias or something. You believe in the Christian God (as an example), so any experiences you may have are now the Christian God's doing. NDE? You will see the Christian God you imagined in your head.
I guess my point, is that if you must believe BEFORE you can see, then a whole load of people will never see. As Phet said, it seems that many people who believe like this simply want to feel special. They want those who have not seen, to feel like they just haven't done it right yet, like they have.
Funny how you have to first believe in God, to get God to visit you or teach you... You ever wonder why that is, ocean? Seems kind of circular to me. Believing should be the last step, not the first. Otherwise, you are merely forming opinions around something you already believe.
Also, I didn't say you had to force him, only that you should ask him to pay me a visit. Let him know that if he shows up, I will drop my non-belief right then and there. All he has to do is show up. Tell him I'll be waiting on him! Oh, and can you also request that he comes in one of his disguises? Like maybe show up as Aphrodite or something? That would be sweet!
Nope! I was an atheist/agnostic until God opened my eyes.
Thing is, we all know He exists; it is evident from what is created that there is a Creator.
Nope! I was an atheist/agnostic until God opened my eyes.
Thing is, we all know He exists; it is evident from what is created that there is a Creator.
"Blah blah blah, I'm special, you're not.... You just haven't looked. Blah blah blah".
I was a Christian, until I opened my own eyes. Your God was nowhere to be found, even at my lowest moments, when I was begging and pleading for a sign. The only thing that is "evident" is that people who WANT to believe, see things that verify what they want to believe, and what they want to see. Just as people of other religions see THEIR version of God.
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