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I agree with what Jesus is teaching but that does not make ME the judge of it. I am not the judge and jury, just the reporter of an obvious judgment by Jesus. What do the words "They know not what they do." mean to you if not "they are ignorant." (BTW, the "They" He is referring to includes ALL of us.)
It is ignorance but not only ignorance, it is delusion, ignorance of one’s own true nature. Vedanta teaches that not making the effort to know our true nature, which is divinity, is equal to destroying our own soul. That is the kind of primal ignorance Jesus is talking about. It is an ignorance that can be removed only through knowledge.
Every action yields results. He is appealing to God to forgive their bad karma that would result from their action of torture and murder of his own body.
How much more compassion can one show? And there are people who live a among us who are able to show that kind of compassion, willing to forgive crimes committed against them, forgive the killer of their own loved ones. It happens. They are truly evolved beings.
That is what he is teaching us about mercy and forgiveness with his extreme example. He is also teaching that spirit is eternal, it does get tortured and murdered like the body, it is always pure.
"They know not what they do" can also be legitimately interpreted to only be directed toward the Roman soldiers. I didn't even have to meditate to know that.
Maybe it can be read that way. But that does not fit with the way Jesus taught and lived his teachings. His forgiveness was all encompassing, for all humanity. Because Divinity is love, and love is expressed in action, action of kindness and forgiveness, abstaining from revenge.
Maybe meditation can lead to deeper understanding!
Maybe it can be read that way. But that does not fit with the way Jesus taught and lived his teachings. His forgiveness was all encompassing, for all humanity. Because Divinity is love, and love is expressed in action, action of kindness and forgiveness, abstaining from revenge.
Maybe meditation can lead to deeper understanding!
That is not what christians generally teach. You're just making it up. Most christians believe that you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
"They know not what they do" can also be legitimately interpreted to only be directed toward the Roman soldiers....
I agree. Same with sell all you possess and follow me, Matt 19....Jesus was talking to that one man.
If someone wants to make his words for everyone...ok. I don't always.
I look at the scene in that moment.
But, it is wise to forgive those that don't know what they're doing, imo.
This thing said way earlier about Jesus and God are like - 'good cop/bad cop' was new to me. A fascinating belief.
I mean, since Jesus said he only did what the Father wanted him to ...and that was about healing, love, forgiveness and announcing
the Kingdom of Heaven as I saw it. I might've left some things out.
I agree. Same with sell all you possess and follow me, Matt 19....Jesus was talking to that one man.
If someone wants to make his words for everyone...ok. I don't always.
I look at the scene in that moment.
But, it is wise to forgive those that don't know what they're doing, imo.
This thing said way earlier about Jesus and God are like - 'good cop/bad cop' was new to me. A fascinating belief.
I mean, since Jesus said he only did what the Father wanted him to ...and that was about healing, love, forgiveness and announcing
the Kingdom of Heaven as I saw it. I might've left some things out.
It seems to me that whether or not one should forgive someone something should depend on 2 things:
original intent of that person
have they made amends (one shouldn't expect to get something for nothing)
Colossians 2; 9, For in Him dwells the fullness of the God head bodily.
John 1;1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was nothing made that was made.
For all intents and purposes, Jesus is the great creator that made all things.
God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
One with out the Spirit of God cannot worship him.
Jesus alone provides the Holy Spirit that one may have this privilege and be taught of God as well.
Calling Jesus "Lord" does not make it so. Obeying the tutelage of the Holy Spirit Jesus provides demonstrates Jesus Lordship in one's life. Doing works outside this influence, even miracles in Jesus' name is not affirmation of this relationship. Matthew 7;21,22,23, One may fool others, even one's self but not God.
Merely being taught of men does not accomplish this.
Matthew. "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
No matter how long you've known the Lord, or what you think you've accomplished, this phrase is always true.
A wise man never takes his dependency on God for granted, but the fallen takes all things for granted.
It seems to me that whether or not one should forgive someone something should depend on 2 things:
original intent of that person
have they made amends (one shouldn't expect to get something for nothing)
I understand that logic.
But lemme tell ya - forgiveness is not logical...not to the worldly, egoic mind.
I must say that is one thing (of many) I love about following Christ's example and transcendent mind.
"Go for the love, go for the kindness that defies all reason."
~ Miss Hepburn
Casual Visitor,
I hear what you are saying and there is some merit. Please consider that all humans are imperfect whether they belong to any religion or not. Although, I am imperfect, I do try to be a good representative for Jesus.
Colossians 2; 9, For in Him dwells the fullness of the God head bodily.
John 1;1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was nothing made that was made.
For all intents and purposes, Jesus is the great creator that made all things.
God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
One with out the Spirit of God cannot worship him.
Jesus alone provides the Holy Spirit that one may have this privilege and be taught of God as well.
Calling Jesus "Lord" does not make it so. Obeying the tutelage of the Holy Spirit Jesus provides demonstrates Jesus Lordship in one's life. Doing works outside this influence, even miracles in Jesus' name is not affirmation of this relationship. Matthew 7;21,22,23, One may fool others, even one's self but not God.
Merely being taught of men does not accomplish this.
Matthew. "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
No matter how long you've known the Lord, or what you think you've accomplished, this phrase is always true.
A wise man never takes his dependency on God for granted, but the fallen takes all things for granted.
If only people would realize that the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit of agape described, revealed, and personally demonstrated by Jesus on the Cross, NOT some supernatural "person" that only attends to believers in Christ. Whenever anyone is in any of the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit they are being guided by the Holy Spirit! Anyone who is NOT in one or more of those states of mind is NOT being guided by the Holy Spirit. It is NOT rocket science and it is NOT supernatural.
It is quite natural to get into those states of mind, especially by watching the movie The Passion of Christ! That is what the effect of hearing about the Word of God (Jesus) evokes within us. It is what was evoked in the hearers at Pentecost. We are to strive to be in those states of mind as often as possible in our daily lives, NOT expect some special supernatural event!! Here are those states of mind again for a reminder of what the Holy Spirit is supposed to evoke in us:
Philippians 2:5-30 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
The "mind of Christ" is how we know the "mind of God," NOT our primitive ancestors' beliefs about God recorded in scripture. We are to apply the "mind of Christ" to what we read in the Bible and use His Holy Spirit to influence our state of mind as often as possible. When we are in the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape we cannot "sin" or do anything wrong. We will immediately see what was interpreted incorrectly in the scriptures.
Merry meet casual visitor and thanks for your post it was very warm and enlightening. My biggest problem with Christians is when I tell them that I'm a witch that loves Jesus and that there is no shame for a witch or anyone else for that matter to say they love Jesus too. I also tell them that I follow Christian/Wiccan/Shamanic paths because of my Irish and Native American ancestry.
Because of my paths, I saw the beauty in people regardless of the religion they chose or refrained from and it amazed me. That religious differences aside we really aren't that different from each other.
I lost count how many times I heard "suffer a witch to live" "burn in hell" "you can't serve two masters" but what hurts the most is when they say "I can't love God". Instead of being happy that I love Jesus they do everything they can to discredit me, push me away from God, say I'm not good enough to be with Him because I'm evil. They do this out of fear, because if they accept me for who I am, they think I'm mocking God, being blasphemous and promoting Heresy. Isn't that the same thing Satan would say to a person to discourage them to be a Christian?
I used to tell people to give Christians a chance but now I say run away as fast as you can from them, which is sad. Christianity is about Love not condemnation, but there are too many followers that want to condemn people they don't understand or people who refuse to follow their interpretations of the Bible. I always like to tell parable stories in my articles so I will share a parable of a witch moving to a bible belt town that had two very distinct churches. I hope you enjoy
Once upon a time there was a witch that moved into a small town from the big city to get a new fresh new start in life. The town she chose seemed quiet and peaceful so she decided to go for a walk after unpacking her belongings in her new home to get a feel for the place.
It was a small town and suddenly she came up to a church that was having a celebration of some sort outside their grounds. She didn't want to disturb them so she quietly and meekly stayed on the sidewalk as she discreetly passed by.
Before she had a chance to leave that church area, a very concerned member of the church ran up to the witch and said "I'm sorry, this is a private dinner party we are only having for true Christians to attend". The witch said her apologies to the man as she was only passing through to explore their town after she unpacked her belongings. The man looked the witch over and said "you are trespassing on our sidewalk, but tell you what, normally we don't let outsiders at our dinner party, but if you promise to obey what we tell you who God is, read the bible at exactly 3pm every day and never question our God given authority I can maybe let you have a few scraps of our food. The witch kindly declined his request and said "I'm not hungry, I just wanted to take a walk at my new town, and see how it looks. I didn't mean to disturb you function, for I am a witch". This angered the Christian man and told her to be gone and don't trespass on their land again or they will call the sheriff on her even though she was on a public sidewalk and not on their property. She said her apologies to the man and swiftly walked away.
Well wouldn't you know it just a few blocks down there happened to be another church that also had an outside dinner celebration and a Christian man spotted her, so he quickly ran up to her too. Before he had a chance to say anything the witch said "I'm sorry mister, I don't want any trouble, I'm new in town and just wanted to take a walk after I unpacked." The Christian man gave her a hug and said "it's perfectly all right my dear, our church is having a wonderful feast celebration and you are officially invited" still shaken up from the last encounter she told the man "I would love too but I'm a witch so it's ok if you rescind your invitation.". The man smiled and said "You're a witch, I'm a farmer, and that lady over there is the preachers wife, be careful with her because the minute she sees you she is going to give you a big hug and never let go ha-ha!". The young witch cautiously went to the churches party and even though they had different views of what God is, they were a family because they had such wonderful love in them.
Before the witch left their grounds they fixed her another plate for her to take home and told her that she was welcome anytime on their church grounds. So what happened to a witch that decided to take a stroll one afternoon after she finished unpacking her belongings in a small town she moved to? She met a family of true Christians that loved her for what she was and not what that other church believed her to be.
Last edited by High.priestess.Sarah; 05-16-2023 at 09:05 AM..
Reason: Grammer and spelling errors darn phone hard to spell ;)
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