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That is a good question, Ukrkoz. Let me try. Vedanta would say because of karma, which immerses us in the turmoil of this word because of our desires. Where did this desire come from? I need to study more.
Do you have an idea?
Certainly.
But, before we go anywhere, let me point out something.
YOU say, you are nothing but Brahman. Fine, I call it Consciousness, we talk same thing. But, my question was - if you were Brahman, then why Brahman put you out into this world, as YOU? I am not referring to YOU as CB, or whatever your real name is. It is just a convenience marker. I am referring to YOU, as immortal Self in human body. Whatever Vedas or Upanishads call it.
I am, again, asking your thoughts personal opinion, on why Brahman, that is you, put you out for all those challenges into the world, just for you to return back into Brahman and dissolve in it? As, from standpoint of eternity, what Brahman is, your existences on Earth are not even blink of an eye.
WHAT IS THE POINT? Don't ask books, I am bagging for your own and own only heart feeling on it. Please. As, as described, I believe, you are following pointless dogma. It has - no final destination, no goal to strive for. Dissolution in Brahman is GONE FOREVER. Just like atheist believes that he is non existent after death, so is one, who believes that he "dissolves in Brahman (nirvana)". Same difference.
Now, why we came into this world? Did you read, what I said about the eternal order of progression yesterday? When a unit of nature develops into unit of intelligence and then has to balance it-Self? That is what brought some of those units, aka humans, down to Earth. Poor balancing. Sure, karma kicks in right away, no doubt. But that ius my answer to your question.
Also, I want to point out another aspect of what you said. We are here due to karma. Right. In a manner of speech, of course. Thing is, to create karma, there has to be someone, who creates it, right? I seriously doubt, Brahman simply slaps itself with a karma ticket and says - this particular chunk of my consciousness is from now on granted karma and has to serve prison term on Earth for 5 billion years. That's pretty much stupid.
What I am saying, "Self" already has to BE, to develop, or NOT, its karma.(as not every unit fails balancing test. Only some) Right? It's basic fact. Does your source say, where and why that Self appeared from and for? As, most likely, explanation will be pretty close to what I said before, about unit development. Maybe,. in different words but, in principle - same.
Sure. if that what you believe in, then that is fine.
Here is what I mean. Unit of nature appears as result of, call it a ripple, in Consciousness. It is conscious only as its function. As it interacts with other units of nature, its level of consciousness is constantly growing. It is capable of more and more complex functions.
At certain point of development, that unit acquires enough consciousness that, it crosses from a nature side, where units are conscious only as their function, into Intelligent side, where units are conscious, that they are conscious. Approximately, Cogito, ergo sum. Unit becomes Self-conscious.
That unit is in not in physical side of everything. It is in its perfect, eternal side. Everything in that side is is of perfect, balanced units and, as such, eternal.
This new unit of Intelligence needs to balance itself, to be able to stay and function in perfect realm.
If process of balancing fails, such unit Lowers" itself into the lower worlds and, to use lay term, falls out of the Realm of Permanence, into the lower, physical world. ( sort of, story of Adam and Eve and them being expelled from The Garden of Eden)
As the result, this unit of Intelligence now has to, I don't know, re train itself to be able to balance itself. When this happens, through countless existences, and learning from them, on the physical plane of the physical world, called our universe, it then can return back to the Realm of Permanence.
That's "the skinny" of it.
What I believe in? Mind telling me what I believe in that you don't? Surely you don't disagree the truth is not as simple or "skinny" for everyone given what we see in this forum and/or what we know of the history of mankind. Right?
As for the rest you seem to think is "simple," I get the whole "I think therefore I am" thing. How lack of intelligence has evolved to what we consider intelligence today, consciousness, constantly growing. In constant need of balance in order to further advance if not just survive. No issues about any of that anyway. What constitutes the line between all that and the "Realm of Permanence?" Not so simple for me anyway.
I tend to look at this kind of thing more from the "Realm of Reality." The best way my intelligence allows me, and as such you seem crossing that line a bit when it comes to notions of "countless existences."
Countless existences is simple concept of progression and perfection of fallen Self through - countless existences. Surely, it is virtually impossible, to accomplish this through only one.
I disagree that intelligence has "developed". Consciousness, or The Light of Intelligence, simply is what it is. Humans are allotted a certain "amount" of it, per each and one's Destiny. Some have more, some have less, some have none.
Is it really very simple. Difference between you and I, Dear Learnme, is that you, apparently, believe in evolution - and I do not. I, also, follow different history of humankind. My history of humankind has no beginning and will have no end. Humankind, just like Earth, in its various manifestations, are as eternal, as Consciousness and Nature themselves. Yes, I am very well aware of what official, profane science says. Fortunately, I am not subscribing to their word anymore.
This is why we have only few points of contact in our posts. Regretfully.
There is also another angle, the principle of ignorance. This is a deeper level of ignorance than what is normally understood. This is ignorance of self-awareness, awareness of the self. How individual ignorance of self can be multiplied to form the unreality of the world as we experience, where we have forgotten our Oneness - this is something i need to study.
Reality is, arguably, the best realm - maybe the only realm. The path through it would seem to lie in the processes of intuition, insight, revelation, and realization. Entire systems of thought have risen to encourage those processes, including science, religion, psychology, philosophy, art, music, and so on. It may depend on divine inspiration. It may be that only geniuses can access the processes. thus, we have the creators of the systems of thought or some who simply do it. It would be nice if it can be learned through meditation or logic or prayer, as some believe. Then maybe it is just a matter of faith-an absence of doubt.
Last edited by highplainsrus; 07-19-2020 at 04:15 PM..
By those who can, The Light of Intelligence can be, by conscious effort, focused into a point, on a subject of interest. When such concentration is accomplished, the entire Truth about this subject is revealed, as it is, in instance.
Hence, one does not need elaborate constructs, created by others, to understand anything. All one needs is to learn, how to focus The Light into a point on a subject of interest.
Again, as Sukyamuni said - Be ye lamps onto yourselves. Multiple are His words, where he points out, that only one's thinking will provide answers to any questions, one has.
The second law only applies in a closed system. Which the universe is not.
Whether the universe is open or closed is up for debate.
What has been observed is that the expansion of our universe is accelerating.
This either means the universe will eventually contract and we haven't reached the inflection point yet, or that the universe will expand infinitely and experience heat death.
I am not an expert but the winning opinion among experts is heat death. I think this is derived from the cosmological constants. There is not enough mass in our universe to cause eventual contraction.
If there is a multiverse (meaning our universe is an open system) we may still be in a universe destined to die owing to the values of the various cosmological constants governing our universe.
Countless existences is simple concept of progression and perfection of fallen Self through - countless existences. Surely, it is virtually impossible, to accomplish this through only one.
I disagree that intelligence has "developed". Consciousness, or The Light of Intelligence, simply is what it is. Humans are allotted a certain "amount" of it, per each and one's Destiny. Some have more, some have less, some have none.
Is it really very simple. Difference between you and I, Dear Learnme, is that you, apparently, believe in evolution - and I do not. I, also, follow different history of humankind. My history of humankind has no beginning and will have no end. Humankind, just like Earth, in its various manifestations, are as eternal, as Consciousness and Nature themselves. Yes, I am very well aware of what official, profane science says. Fortunately, I am not subscribing to their word anymore.
This is why we have only few points of contact in our posts. Regretfully.
Namste
I think we make the next form (meta-human) in 200 years or less. Does that count as the great oneness growing and evolving also?
Reality is, arguably, the best realm - maybe the only realm. The path through it would seem to lie in the processes of intuition, insight, revelation, and realization. Entire systems of thought have risen to encourage those processes, including science, religion, psychology, philosophy, art, music, and so on. It may depend on divine inspiration. It may be that only geniuses can access the processes. thus, we have the creators of the systems of thought or some who simply do it. It would be nice if it can be learned through meditation or logic or prayer, as some believe. Then maybe it is just a matter of faith-an absence of doubt.
It does depend on divine inspiration but no genius required just no doubt. It can be learned through meditation or prayer and faith - no doubt.
Countless existences is simple concept of progression and perfection of fallen Self through - countless existences. Surely, it is virtually impossible, to accomplish this through only one.
I disagree that intelligence has "developed". Consciousness, or The Light of Intelligence, simply is what it is. Humans are allotted a certain "amount" of it, per each and one's Destiny. Some have more, some have less, some have none.
Is it really very simple. Difference between you and I, Dear Learnme, is that you, apparently, believe in evolution - and I do not. I, also, follow different history of humankind. My history of humankind has no beginning and will have no end. Humankind, just like Earth, in its various manifestations, are as eternal, as Consciousness and Nature themselves. Yes, I am very well aware of what official, profane science says. Fortunately, I am not subscribing to their word anymore.
This is why we have only few points of contact in our posts. Regretfully.
Namste
Very interesting perspective, reason and logic you enjoy sharing. Maybe it's just a different understanding of what is simple and what is not. For you something is simple if one simply sees things the way you do. You're right, however. What you seem to think and believe is not so simple, reasonable or logical for me agree to upon. Might as well call me simple too...
I will agree that our intelligence as humans has not really improved all that much, although there is good evidence that as our brain size expanded over the course of the evolutionary process, so too our level of intelligence or ability to think was improved. What has served more importantly during our more recent human history is the building of knowledge, reason and technology improved upon from one generation to the next.
I don't know many people who don't believe in evolution, and I don't think science is "profane" any more than people with opinion different from mine are "profane." People, science and all the rest we get into are either mostly right or mostly wrong. Mostly rational or mostly not. Believe what they do based on facts we can mostly establish as true or something else altogether.
Why would a person like you consider "few points of contact" with a person like me "regretful" I wonder...
Cheers!
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