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The vocabulary of higher mathematics is very poetic. If only it weren't so hard to understand.
Not so different from Sanskrit. I like this about Witten: "he is also a tennis player".
Theory of Everything, huh? "it from quibit"! ordinary reality is not so boring, after all.
Witten is pretty coherent. the questions are better than the answers.
Its the questions that give meaning.
Hmmmm ... stated so many different ways, but i think its true.
we are just laying the ground work. Every mass extinction left something for the next life forms to make the next step. O2, then oil, started the ball rolling. We leave information.
The deer isn't a projection as much as it is formed from the inputs. The deer is there. It may not be what we think it is, but it is there.
is this brhman like looking at a person and not seeing parts. the eyes, nose, mouth aren't really seen as we talk to the person. Like looking out the window and seeing everything tied together as one? A functioning unit we call the universe. I keep to the biosphere because we empirical, but I don't see it as individual parts. No more than I see my kid as parts.
what does this self realized mean? does it mean we see our true place?
Per Advaita philosophy Self-realization means the realization that the Cosmos out there is the only truth, the only reality, and we are that. Advaita calls it Brhman and it transcends any attributes, is beyond time and space.
The reason we see ourselves as separate is because our mind conceals the truth and projects a world made of names and forms.
The world is not non-existent, it is a relative reality, with which we transact until realization is achieved. The world will still be with us when we achieve the realization but we would know it as unreal. That is liberation.
Per Advaita philosophy Self-realization means the realization that the Cosmos out there is the only truth, the only reality, and we are that. Advaita calls it Brhman and it transcends any attributes, is beyond time and space.
The reason we see ourselves as separate is because our mind conceals the truth and projects a world made of names and forms.
The world is not non-existent, it is a relative reality, with which we transact until realization is achieved. The world will still be with us when we achieve the realization but we would know it as unreal. That is liberation.
well ... thats almost exactly what the science points too.
I use "illusory" as apposed to "unreal." meaning it just different than we think it is. Those difference are exactly what you just said. For example: Dark matter points to the fact when I look at you there may be 6 times "more you" than I see (overs simplified and loosely applied of course).
so can we still understand this and not be anxious about it? I mean I can see it, I can show its more valid than denying it, and understand my place in it. I have a little trouble with the nervous part.
I still worry about losing my house ... type thing.
well ... thats almost exactly what the science points too.
I use "illusory" as apposed to "unreal." meaning it just different than we think it is. Those difference are exactly what you just said. For example: Dark matter points to the fact when I look at you there may be 6 times "more you" than I see (overs simplified and loosely applied of course).
so can we still understand this and not be anxious about it? I mean I can see it, I can show its more valid than denying it, and understand my place in it. I have a little trouble with the nervous part.
I still worry about losing my house ... type thing.
Not quite illusion. The projection and obscuring that happens when we perceive the world as real is the cause of anxiety, sorrow, and pain.
So change your attitude. Try to live in the present. Take deep breaths, meditate. Dont ruminate about the past and dont fear the future. Live lightly, live with kindness. Give.
Can you give me a reference to this verse?
Considering that it is our mind that projects the world, the deer too is a projection of our mind. The human body, that is merely a house for all the instruments that are stored in it, be means of which we project this world, is the only vehicle fit to gain awareness of the Self and gain liberation.
So we see the deer (the form and name) when we are as yet Un-relaized conciousness. When we are Self-relaized we merely see Brhman, because that is all there is.
Your answer is the simpler, usually better, approach.
In the first Johnston translation link I posted, it is the end of Part I. Not really in verse form,
here is the full piece. I'll look for it in the Johnston translation you posted and in what I think
is the longer version in verse form. It may be that Tattva Bodha is only intended for the human
experience and simply does not relate to this condundrum.
What is Bliss?
The own-nature of Joy.
Thus let a man know that the own-nature of his own Self is Being, Consciousness, Bliss.
--------
In this interpretation (same text), Johnston clarifies the distinction between this Catechism and the
longer Crest Jewel.
Not quite illusion. The projection and obscuring that happens when we perceive the world as real is the cause of anxiety, sorrow, and pain.
So change your attitude. Try to live in the present. Take deep breaths, meditate. Dont ruminate about the past and dont fear the future. Live lightly, live with kindness. Give.
"projection" and "obscuring" ... yeah, I can definitely see that in a lot of cases. in fact, it does fit better to what we see people doing.
as the cause to real pain. In a way for sure. but some people, in fact many people, use "projection" and "obscuring" to hide from pain and suffering. But they do cause those around them suffering many times too.
so yeah, processing it ... I tend to agree with you.
Not quite illusion. The projection and obscuring that happens when we perceive the world as real is the cause of anxiety, sorrow, and pain.
So change your attitude. Try to live in the present. Take deep breaths, meditate. Dont ruminate about the past and dont fear the future. Live lightly, live with kindness. Give.
Some readings express strategies for life that emphasize a kind of introspection that reduces or removes the uncomfortable feelings and thoughts. Asking "who is it that feels this emotion?" and "is that really me?". Are the emotions productive or distracting? I better stop before I exceed my depth. I don't have references to the readings at hand.
Last edited by highplainsrus; 09-03-2020 at 06:01 PM..
Some readings express strategies for life that emphasize a kind of introspection that reduces or removes the uncomfortable feelings and thoughts. Asking "who is it that feels this emotion?" and "is that really me?". Are the emotions productive or distracting? I better stop before I exceed my depth.
well thats why crazy fits right?
I know there is no logical reason (but how I grew up) for my emotional response. I understand its a thin vial and all I have to do is walk through it.
We better not get into how psychology looks at all this. I peeked into it and didn't care for it.
There may not be a deer conundrum at all if it is like this:
Self is all Being. All Being is Self.
That seems simple enough.
Tattva's subject is a subset of all being - humans.
definitely off topic ...
spacetime and qed clearly show that whatever we are, the system around is at least that. We are all the same thing. "spacetime". Its almost nonsensical at this point to argue it.
if I am classified as alive, there really is no legitimate way to classify the system around me as not alive. In fact, here at CD the only way to counter the claim is to say its theist-like then bash you over the head with it. Or they use composition fallacy, that actually doesn't address the data being used. It lumps it into "fallacy" then dismisses it out of hand. Its just a tool used to demonstrate error to people that don't get how to use data to make a statement of belief.
the question really is about "how big is this oneness?" also, the notion of "always has been." ... when does a being that last 70-ish years "experience" 10^100 years as infinity? But it doesn't have to be.
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