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a new thread has been started on why statements like that are a problem, statements which begin "the problem with religion is" "the problem with atheism is" "the problem with atheists is that they" "the problem with people who are part of a religion is"
they are a red flag for me in the same way (and for the same reasons) as statements like these "the problem with women is that they" "the problem with black people is that they" "the problem with Americans is that they" "the problem with homosexuals is that they"
The problem with comments like this are that they...
if you don't like religion then that is your personal choice and it is a personal prejudice. just like there are people who don't like blacks. and there are people who don't like homosexuals. and there are people who don't like those from the country of ________ . that is their personal prejudice. that is what intolerance is. that is what it looks like, that is what it sounds like.
people may double down with all sorts of "reasons" for their personal prejudice and intolerance. and that is when the irrational statements and thought processes surface, and the ugly broad brush sweeping negative generalizations which are invariably inaccurate.
because whatever negative example is given as "proof" it does not apply to the whole group. are all black people like that, no they are not. are all homosexuals like that, no they are not. does all religion do that, no it does not. does everyone within this or that religion do that, no they do not. is all religion the same, no it is not. is everyone from India alike, no they are not. the extent to which a person is unwilling or unable to admit this, is the extent to which they remain entrenched in their own prejudice and intolerance.
You seem always wanting to blur these lines of discussion, muddy the waters, and although I often call for specifics rather than generalities, there is a time and place for all manner of consideration. For example, one of the problems I have with religion is the inclination of religious folks to deny gay people their rights.
Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course there are. If that is not always your underlying point, I don't know what it is, but yes of course there are always exceptions to the rule. What of the rule too though?
Are most religious people against gay rights? Far as I know this history going back a very long time now, and given what is still going on in many parts of America, also what a very good (religious) friend of mine tells me as well, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
Many of the largest U.S. religious institutions have remained firmly against allowing same-sex marriage, including the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Jewish movement and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as the Southern Baptist Convention and other evangelical Protestant denominations. The nation’s largest historically black church, the National Baptist Convention, and its biggest Pentecostal denomination, the Assemblies of God, also prohibit their clergy from marrying same-sex couples.
You seem always wanting to blur these lines of discussion, muddy the waters, and although I often call for specifics rather than generalities, there is a time and place for all manner of consideration. For example, one of the problems I have with religion is the inclination of religious folks to deny gay people their rights.
Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course there are. If that is not always your underlying point, I don't know what it is, but yes of course there are always exceptions to the rule. What of the rule too though?
Are most religious people against gay rights? Far as I know this history going back a very long time now, and given what is still going on in many parts of America, also what a very good (religious) friend of mine tells me as well, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
Many of the largest U.S. religious institutions have remained firmly against allowing same-sex marriage, including the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Jewish movement and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as the Southern Baptist Convention and other evangelical Protestant denominations. The nation’s largest historically black church, the National Baptist Convention, and its biggest Pentecostal denomination, the Assemblies of God, also prohibit their clergy from marrying same-sex couples.
It was. Tzaph was playing a crafty game. essentially '...not everybody is like that...' uses as a reason to try to muffle ANY criticism. That quite apart from the generalised accusations dished out against the atheists. or indeed irreligious theists who find a problem still existing with some Christians, some Churches and with the Christianity and indeed religion itself.
You seem always wanting to blur these lines of discussion, muddy the waters, and although I often call for specifics rather than generalities, there is a time and place for all manner of consideration. For example, one of the problems I have with religion is the inclination of religious folks to deny gay people their rights.
Are there exceptions to this rule? Of course there are. If that is not always your underlying point, I don't know what it is, but yes of course there are always exceptions to the rule. What of the rule too though?
Are most religious people against gay rights? Far as I know this history going back a very long time now, and given what is still going on in many parts of America, also what a very good (religious) friend of mine tells me as well, the answer is an unequivocal yes.
Many of the largest U.S. religious institutions have remained firmly against allowing same-sex marriage, including the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Jewish movement and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as the Southern Baptist Convention and other evangelical Protestant denominations. The nation’s largest historically black church, the National Baptist Convention, and its biggest Pentecostal denomination, the Assemblies of God, also prohibit their clergy from marrying same-sex couples.
I know...I cancel half the posts I write. I cancelled one just now on the exchange between Phet and Bapfun. Phet can take him without my help.
I hate to admit this but ever since the discussion about the roles we play on this forum surfaced, I have been creeped out. I didn't even bother to fish out those quotes but can be found with a search with Trans and Phet.
The above quote reminds me of street gangs, and so ridiculously immature, considering the average age of participants with so much time in our hands. When these “roles” are assumed all that ensues is chaos and derailment of a perfectly good discussion. It is awful.
It seems cynical to me that Atheism is included in a forum called Religion and Spirituality but not Philosophy! Spirituality is very close to Philosophy, both of which examine the same stuff.
Spirituality and Philosophy deserve a forum here with a dedicated moderator. I appreciate the work moderators do here, they are awesome.
when a person sees themself as "playing a role" it is a statement and admission of not being authentic.
that's what playing a role is, playing the part of something, rather than speaking from an authentic place of who you really are.
when a person casts others in a "role" such as "oh, you're an atheist we know what those people are like" "oh you're a homosexual we know what those people are like" "oh you're black we know what you people are like" "oh, you are religious we know what those people are like" it demonstrates an inability to interact with an actual person at an authentic level.
it's why made-up phrases like "theist-think" fall flat on the floor. the same way as if a person were to say "oh black people think that way" or "that's how homosexuals think."
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-11-2020 at 08:10 AM..
when a person sees themself as "playing a role" it is a statement and admission of not being authentic.
that's what playing a role is, playing the part of something, rather than speaking from an authentic place of who you really are.
when a person casts others in a "role" such as "oh, you're an atheist we know what those people are like" "oh you're a homosexual we know what those people are like" "oh you're black we know what you people are like" "oh, you are religious we know what those people are like" it demonstrates an inability to interact with an actual person at an authentic level.
it's why made-up phrases like "theist-think" fall flat on the floor. the same way as if a person were to say "oh black people think that way" or "that's how homosexuals think."
Or might just be semantics and the inclination by some to pick away at these sorts of personal differences instead of the topic at hand.
No doubt some are very long on the former, very short on the latter. No need to name names...
when a person sees themself as "playing a role" it is a statement and admission of not being authentic.
that's what playing a role is, playing the part of something, rather than speaking from an authentic place of who you really are.
when a person casts others in a "role" such as "oh, you're an atheist we know what those people are like" "oh you're a homosexual we know what those people are like" "oh you're black we know what you people are like" "oh, you are religious we know what those people are like" it demonstrates an inability to interact with an actual person at an authentic level.
it's why made-up phrases like "theist-think" fall flat on the floor. the same way as if a person were to say "oh black people think that way" or "that's how homosexuals think."
leaders play roles. good ones play it well. And they are very "authentic" because they understand its not about them.
You do have a point. maybe it takes people "outside" of the group to explain the group better to the group. Can a zebra fully understand what it means to be a zebra?
and yes, there are people that will abuse it and make a weapon out of it. You do that a bunch to me. Take a reasonable notion and turn it into a weapon.
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I know...I cancel half the posts I write. I cancelled one just now on the exchange between Phet and Bapfun. Phet can take him without my help. 
accusations dished out against the atheists. or indeed irreligious theists who find a problem still existing with some Christians, some Churches and with the Christianity and indeed religion itself.
Roles on R&S
