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Oh good, physics is your thing. Cool, chemistry and physics is mine. Yes, everything I said has people for it and others not so sure. Everything is under constant scrutiny. Right now, information is pretty important Pete. In fact, I will take your statement one step further. Our physics is woefully incomplete about a lot of things.
In fact, so incomplete that you thinking we have to have a 100% or nothing is surprising? Maybe I over stated "information". But come on now. 100% or nothing? from a trained person in physics?
Now I know your are physics trained. then you know it is only about how consistent my claim is with observation. Like I said, don't believe it
Stating the biosphere matches "alive" more than not "not alive" is consistent enough that you calling me laughable is funny. In fact, it is so consistent with the list, you can't deploy anything else but laughable, fanciful and farfetched.
First of all the definition for alive is biology, it is not my area of expertise. So I look in a biology textbook (and since you have mentioned the biology book a few times, I hope you agree).
The text I copied earlier was from a biology textbook. I hope people see how you kept mentioning a biology book but it was me who actually wrote the points out. And judge you for it - I can't respect a person who talks about looking in a biology textbook for traits of life, but gets someone else to write them out.
The book says, for example that all living organisms reproduce. It is there in my original post. Hence if something does not reproduce, it is not a living organisms.
So it is not my opinion, it is what the biology textbook says.
As for information being fundamental, I said that is undecided. You are the one who acted like it was 100% decided and true. I'm saying it is undecided.
First of all I listed the traits of life. You didn't even though I had been asking you for weeks. So right at the start it was hard to respect you.
Secondly the observations don't support your claim. You repeating that they do like a broken record doesn;t change that.
Even when I leave my house, there are definitely living cells in it - bacteria, some small bugs I'm sure. So by your foolish logic my house is alive even when I am outside. When i am inside it is definitely alive, because all my cells are in it. That is the level of your logic. I'm making a claim about my house being alive using your flawed logic to demonstrate to others the flaw in your logic. You and the rest of the pantheists can believe whatever you want.
it doesn't matter that you listed them and I didn't. Yes, I could tell you were after me from the moment I wasn't all aboard the attack religion train and deny everything.
Pete, now I know I your trained so the conversation is going to change.
Your house (thats the object you defined), with bugs and all in it, does not match enough traits given to life (and we are just at the basics) of life. The house does not match alive when you are in your house. Not by a long shot. even then it it doesn't fit.
The house comparison fails using my logic so exactly what are you saying? Its actually you using the house to compare to me that fails.
The best you could to for that is time lapse it. Speed it up so we don't see the people. even then its a stretch.
the bios metabolizes energy,
is in homeostasis,
repairs and grows,
uses nutrients,
reacts to its surroundings.
I can make a strong case for reproduction, but that was never my claim.
I know biologists, and not one of them will claim that the the biosphere, take as an "object" matches "alive" more than "not alive". Hmmm. That argument sounds a lot more like "top-down thinking" than "bottom-up thinking" so I'm surprised you brought it up.
This also reveals your limited philosophical acumen about switching perspectives in thought experiments. Each time you expand the definition of the unitary object outward you ARE taking a top-down view of it. For example, if you used the bottom-up perspective of a hypothetical sentient cell in your liver and looked for evidence of life and consciousness you would not find it, yet you are alive and conscious.
The claim is "The biosphere matches "alive" more than "not alive".
In this exchange It was just kept to the basic traits anybody can get a hold of. There was no need for anything but common sense.
pete brought these (thank you pete)
the bios metabolizes energy,
is in homeostasis,
repairs and grows,
uses nutrients,
reacts to its surroundings.
reproduction., I said I yield that one. But I could make a case for it.
Pete yielded some, but it was still half of them. And just a little explaining showed it was more than half.
The claim is consistent with observation. Not for everybody. Not 100% certain. that's plenty true. But rational people don't think in terms of 100% true or false., black and white, binary thinking.
The claim stands.
What is more important is what pete had to do after it was shown the claim stood up enough to say "Ok, sort of". He went to
I had to get the list
I don't respect you
laughable
fanciful
Farfetched
I will tell rational people you are wrong.
So I say, because I am science trained "Don't believe me'. But lets not used the tactics deployed here just to keep people from believing anything.
Last edited by Arach Angle; 07-12-2021 at 07:55 PM..
it shows how hypocritical your post are.
your rebirth belief is junk and yet you are railing on his.
you judge yor beliefs one way and his another
when was the last time i "railed on" rebirth?
Multiple times per day like he is with his belief?
No, not even once a month.
But it's interesting that you are so buddy buddy with a lot of religionists, yet biased against Buddhism.
it shows how hypocritical your post are.
your rebirth belief is junk
Ahhhh, the usual Arach tactic of personal abuse.
Some of us aren't high enough on his "reality stack" to avoid abuse.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-13-2021 at 05:29 AM..
Reason: fixed quote
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