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"Persuasive"? Many times there is a "block"...due to bias.
Some are not convinced by the evidence of evolution, etc...they cannot be "persuaded", due to bias.
No matter the logic and reason presented...it is "blocked".
So...that some are not "persuaded" by that which comports with observations is not necessarily informative.
"ALL" is necessarily intelligent...as it IS intelligence.
And since "ALL" is also "potential" and "possibility" and "imagination", etc...there is nothing "ALL" is not.
some atheist have to avoid the scientific method. for obvious reasons.
Is pantheism = Gaia Earth? Gaia: everything on Earth is connected.
It could be related to that depending on how we talk about.
"gaia" matches what we see better than any statement of belief about god I know. Although some people take it way further than I am willing to go. And because some people take it to far and the "truth" of it doesn't really affect my life in anyway, doesn't mean I suppress it due to obnoxious theist.
You are intelligent. You are merely one sentient "cell" of our Reality manifesting intelligence. There are more than 7 billion "cells" just like you in Reality. How on earth can you not see that Reality taken as a whole manifests intelligence?
Yet again, I do not propose to recycle this old fallacy of yours ad nauseam. The cake contains currants but the cake is a cake, not a currant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
there ya go big guy ... you are learning. Its ends with, ok, maybe, but I don't see it yet.
And no, there is no guessing about it. Its not a problem for atheism. atheist is not defined by statements of belief about god. we don't care if there is or there is not one.
But this has been my argument from the start. We have always been on the same page. I have only rejected semantic trickery like 'The universe is God' or at least 'alive'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
its really about size and time scales. The universe may be intelligent but we don't see it interacting with its surroundings to know for sure.
It looks like it may be. But we just can't tell.
Exactly. So the logical knowledge position on the god -claim is 'agnosticism'.
The logical belief position arising is disbelief of a claim we don't know is true until we do. this is is very simple.
Pantheism - whether the worship of all gods or the worship of the earth (or everything) as being an intelligent entity or just the plant -pot we all grow in is either an unvalidated claim or pointless worship more for ourselves than the plant -pot.
Atheists don't mind earth -worship, provided it isn't used as a 'Theism' to try to invalidate atheism without any valid case.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-31-2020 at 10:22 AM..
Is pantheism = Gaia Earth? Gaia: everything on Earth is connected.
Can be. I mean 'Gaia' comes to mind when I hear 'earth -worship'. And yes, earthe in interconnected in terms of ecology, evolution, biosphere, the universe and everything. it is all the same Stuff, engery and physical forces.
I just don't see that as a Theism, much less a god. Reverence perhaps. The need to make a worship of it is more the need of the worshipper than the worshipped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
some atheist have to avoid the scientific method. for obvious reasons.
There is no reason for any to do that, certainly not for any 'obvious reason'. And - just a reminder, the topic is 'pantheism', not 'atheism and its' relation with the scientific method'.
You have to explain WHAT your Nature IS and HOW it can possibly be inferior to the consciousness that investigates and tries to understand it. That is your burden of proof for your absurd default.
No it isn't. You have to prove that it is anything more than the material. Unknowns are not evidence of anything else. The burden of that proof is on you. This is an old fallacy of yours. I also suspect it may be off -topic and a digression into the 'universe is God' topic. which I believe is topice non grata.
No. It is nothing more than pointing to the reality we know which (as a Pantheism) is nature and not 'God' and anything else demands some decent evidence for the claim.
Now I suggest to get back to topic (Pantheism, whether all gods or the earth as object of reverence) and don't use it as an excuse to badmouth atheism or accuse me of lying.
Exactly. So the logical knowledge position on the god -claim is 'agnosticism'.
The logical belief position arising is disbelief of a claim we don't know is true until we do. this is is very simple.
No, the preferred belief system for your atheism is disbelief. It is not the logical one because we are talking about what DOES exist, not what has to be proven to exist. It is just as logical to consider that which is the source of ALL existence to be God but it still is only a preferred belief, as is your disbelief.
Quote:
Pantheism - whether the worship of all gods or the worship of the earth (or everything) as being an intelligent entity or just the plant -pot we all grow in is either an unvalidated claim or pointless worship more for ourselves than the plant -pot.
Atheists don't mind earth -worship, provided it isn't used as a 'Theism' to try to invalidate atheism without any valid case.
Theists don't mind your non-worship of an ineffable nothingness provided it isn't used to try to invalidate theism without any valid case. That is what you do when you consider my views as hijacks no matter what the topic is. Everything in our Reality is manifestations of the underlying unified field. There is nothing BUT field manifesting as myriad compositions of energy/mass/momentum. This, if any manifestation is capable of consciousness, it is because the entire field is conscious.
Nope. Disbelief in not belief and theism has to be validated, not the disbelief without a good reason to believe.
Your confusion is beyond insufferable. Disbelief is a BELIEF NOT an accepted fact of Reality. You BELIEVE there is no God. You do NOT know there is no God. You and your ilk's desire to validate atheism is beyond the pale and born of insufferable ignorance.
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