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This is Mystics theory, not mine so not sure why this post is addressed to me, but thanks for the input.
I do not believe consciousness itself is everywhere. I believe that there are building blocks built into the fabric of the universe that given the right conditions, give rise to consciousness ie there is the potential for consciousness to exist.
Mystic’s theory has flaws which he is unable to resolve. Nothing gives rise rise to consciousness, it simply is, it pervades everything that we know of, and also everything we dont know of, even the ones we dont know that we don’t know of. Nothing created it.
Consciousness is everywhere because it IS the Reality within which we exist, but it is a consciousness of a LIVING God, not a dead, static, unchanging one, and propagation is the primary reason sentient beings (brains) within it exist.
Define the difference between consciousness and god, living or otherwise. Without resorting to science, because this not science.
Learn the language. That is what intelligent people do, particularly if they have a PhD. They do research and get peer reviewed. They dont have a nervous breakdown on CD BECAUSE everybody has damn questions about their pet theology.
Your compassion seems to have evaporated quickly under mild criticism of your deeply held pet theology, imagine 13 years of contant assault by rabid atheists and religious fundamentalists under specifically created rules to restrict and suppress defending your religious and spiritual views using atheist-demanded evidence from science.
Our actions, intended and unintended, right and wrong, all leave their trace on our mind. They are born of desire and these combined become karma which when the body dies is carried by the mind. It is this mind, with all these traces that become sentient and is reincarnated to experience the results of the karma in the relative reality of what we understand as our world. The goal, both in Buddhism and in Hinduism, is to break this cycle, samsara, by cessation of birth. What is born is bound to die, and what is born accumulates karma. The method per Advaita is to realize we are not our corporeal self, but we are Atma, the awareness, the limitless, unbounded, indescribable, eternal, non-dual, complete, self in peace, moksha. Buddhism calls it nirvana, freedom from suffering.
Okay, thank you.
I'm totally good with all of that as a concept.
I understand it as a concept and don't have a problem with it at all.
But you missed my previous point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Sorry but how can Karma possibly be the reason we exist at all?
I can understand the concept that previous existences decide the fate of future existences, but not why we exist in the first place.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation surely?
I'm going to make a lot of assumptions here:
(if not this post will be wasted, but I will press on, please correct me if I am wrong)
I'm going to assume that you believe in the formation of the earth and human evolution?
You said in a previous post that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
The concept of karma which is sanskrit for action and closely allied with the Advaita/non-dual philosophy, IS the very reason why we exist at all with name and form. Absent karma we will remain as pure conciousness, in non-dual existence.
I think what you are saying is that Karma has always existed?
Karma seems to be very human centric as it deals with the human mind. ie:
Quote:
Our actions, intended and unintended, right and wrong, all leave their trace on our mind. They are born of desire and these combined become karma which when the body dies is carried by the mind.
'Minds' did not exist before humans existed.
But Karma existed, presumably for about 13.8 billions years before humans did? Why?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
Define the difference between consciousness and god, living or otherwise. Without resorting to science, because this not science.
God is THE extant conscious entity, what we consider the universe is His "body," and we are His offspring who are reproducing Him. Science is just a tool to discover the attributes of God (Reality) from which we attempt to understand His ontology by way of separate theories of how He functions and seeking to unify them under a theory of everything. The latter currently eludes our grasp.
Okay, thank you.
I'm totally good with all of that as a concept.
I understand it as a concept and don't have a problem with it at all.
But you missed my previous point.
I'm going to make a lot of assumptions here:
(if not this post will be wasted, but I will press on, please correct me if I am wrong)
I'm going to assume that you believe in the formation of the earth and human evolution?
You said in a previous post that:
I think what you are saying is that Karma has always existed?
Karma seems to be very human centric as it deals with the human mind. ie:
'Minds' did not exist before humans existed.
But Karma existed, presumably for about 13.8 billions years before humans did? Why?
This doesn't make any sense to me.
Karma is attached to the mind. Per the theory of karma mind leaves the body at death and carries with it the karma which conditions the body that again becomes sentient in order to discharge the accumulation of karmas.
Personally i do not have much interest in what happens after we die in such detail. This life here and now is our opportunity to realize the true nature of our self and that knowledge will free us. It is that freedom that is the true purpose of life.
Karma is attached to the mind. Per the theory of karma mind leaves the body at death and carries with it the karma which conditions the body that again becomes sentient in order to discharge the accumulation of karmas.
Personally i do not have much interest in what happens after we die in such detail. This life here and now is our opportunity to realize the true nature of our self and that knowledge will free us. It is that freedom that is the true purpose of life.
Yes I understand that but sorry you are still not answering my question about why Karma is the reason we exist at all.
Let's for arguments sake say there was a first human.
Of course we know that humans gradually evolved over millennia and that there was no 'first human', but for the sake of argument, let's say there was. Certainly at one point humans did not exist. We know that.
Karma seems to be an ongoing, passing from one human to next life.
What about BEFORE humans existed? Did Karma exist before humans did? If so why?
Or did Karma emerge at the same time humans emerged at that imaginary first human?
At what point did Karma become the sole reason for humans existence?
Yes I understand that but sorry you are still not answering my question about why Karma is the reason we exist at all.
1. Let's for arguments sake say there was a first human.
Of course we know that humans gradually evolved over millennia and that there was no 'first human', but for the sake of argument, let's say there was. Certainly at one point humans did not exist. We know that.
2. Karma seems to be an ongoing, passing from one human to next life.
What about BEFORE humans existed? Did Karma exist before humans did? If so why?
Or did Karma emerge at the same time humans emerged at that imaginary first human?
At what point did Karma become the sole reason for humans existence?
1.Ok let's go with the first human. Karma is action, so if there is no action before the human existed obviously there was no karma. It attaches only to the actions performed in this world where he transacts with the names and forms that makes up the world.
2. When this human dies his karma is held in some kind of abeyance until his mind becomes sentient again, and it attaches to the human when he is born back into the world - samsara- the wheel of life and death. The very reason for this (second) birth is to discharge the karmas he accumulated in the first life. His karma shapes what family he is born into, with what capabilities, location and circumstances. This life is also an opportunity to live a life to discharge his bad karma and get some good ones. But accumulating karma is not the goal, it is part of samsara.
This should answer your other 2 questions. But ask if you have any more.
Here is something if you feel like exploring further. I like the way he teaches so I recommend it. He may bring more clarity than I do.
Define the difference between consciousness and god, living or otherwise. Without resorting to science, because this not science.
no proof ... its just not as spiritual in the experience without some link into reality. Knowing its probably real makes it so much more, well, real.
I think you cheapen the experience by not telling people that are asking the truth, as best we can anyway.
Its like pretending a stuffed animal is real. I mean yeah, you don't have to walk it and its always perfect to you. But its just not real. Like carrying unloaded gun for protection.
This is Mystics theory, not mine so not sure why this post is addressed to me, but thanks for the input.
I do not believe consciousness itself is everywhere. I believe that there are building blocks built into the fabric of the universe that given the right conditions, give rise to consciousness ie there is the potential for consciousness to exist.
I think we kind of believe the same thing Cruithne.
How could people misunderstand the connection to that "wholeness", for lack of a better word, as a deity thing?
I get why 2000 years ago did, but I am more interested in the living.
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