Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-08-2020, 10:00 AM
 
29,440 posts, read 9,624,469 times
Reputation: 3452

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
more than that ... who cares what they taught back then.

what do we see today that fits observations.

It is reasonable to say that the earth is a less complex region in a more complex system. Then we can start looking at what that means.

It is also reasonable to say, based on our location and what we see, that life on earth came from little less complex pieces pieces of earth interacting to form more complex things. "Things" we classy as "life" based on their properties I might add.

I lean toward the first just because when zooming in to spacetime and zooming out to the cosmic web, it just matches better. But I can understand people forming a belief off of the second notion.

then, how do both (I use both just because of the scientific method and not faith) influence a statement of belief about god.
No doubt you are onto something here as it seems fairly clear something probably interacted with something else at some point to create something new that was living rather than nonliving. Something happened anyway. Exactly what? We're still not sure...

 
Old 11-08-2020, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
Reputation: 2087
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are defining science too broadly using the Greek philosophers. The beginnings of modern science date much later beginning in the 1500's with Galileo.
Correct, although many of the ideas found in modern science were available in ancient Greece and Rome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Prior to that time, God was the "natural" force that was being investigated by burgeoning science. For untold millennia prior to the Greeks, God was the ONLY "natural" force.
Wrong, Epicureans and Empiricists are examples of ancient Greeks arguing for natural answers independent of religious belief. They were basing their science on observations, not gods.

Last edited by Harry Diogenes; 11-08-2020 at 10:22 AM..
 
Old 11-08-2020, 10:19 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,587,076 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
No doubt you are onto something here as it seems fairly clear something probably interacted with something else at some point to create something new that was living rather than nonliving. Something happened anyway. Exactly what? We're still not sure...
Still not sure - yes. But the evidence there is does rule out Genesis - literalism. And that is what the debate is really about.

Whether there is some kind of creator behind it, is purely (since the failure of ID and I/C) a matter of Faith. Can't prove it - can't disprove it.
 
Old 11-08-2020, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
Reputation: 2087
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Sorry to hear. Why or how does Corona have your wife staying with your brother? You have the virus?
My brother runs a Greek restaurant, and my wife also meets people when she works. So we decided she would stay with my brother, who could help her when the restaurant is closed because of the virus. My oldest daughter wanted to see her old friends, so lives there too.

My grandmother who is more vulnerable lives with us, and as my office is in our house, I work at home. My youngest daughter decided to stay and help, so we stay as isolated as possible.

It is difficult, but we are a strong family, and are managing very well.
 
Old 11-08-2020, 10:45 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Science is to God something like the rising tide is to the sandcastle.
so you are saying sand castle that implies a specific type of god. I used science and engineering to form my statement of belief about god, my castle is a rock castle that addressed the tide.

what kind of castle is yours?
 
Old 11-08-2020, 10:53 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
No doubt you are onto something here as it seems fairly clear something probably interacted with something else at some point to create something new that was living rather than nonliving. Something happened anyway. Exactly what? We're still not sure...

Yup, you focus on "we don't know" and I focus we know this-that-and the other so it looks like [insert thought].

what is your thoughts? besides saying we don't know?
 
Old 11-08-2020, 11:58 AM
 
63,570 posts, read 39,862,781 times
Reputation: 7821
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
No doubt you are onto something here as it seems fairly clear something probably interacted with something else at some point to create something new that was living rather than nonliving. Something happened anyway. Exactly what? We're still not sure...
Do you at least acknowledge the current state of knowledge that sees our entire Reality as manifestations of a unified field (or at the very least 17 of them)? That field is what manifests the things we can measure and experience as our physical Reality. By what reasonable rationale do you infer that it is capable of manifesting life or consciousness without fundamentally BEING life and consciousness? The distinction between animate and inanimate are functions of our limited and constrained perspective and time sense, something Arach has futilely tried to convey to you in a number of different ways. Of course, Arach has the same reservations about awareness that you do because of his acceptance of non-explanations like "emergence."
 
Old 11-08-2020, 12:08 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Do you at least acknowledge the current state of knowledge that sees our entire Reality as manifestations of a unified field (or at the very least 17 of them)? That field is what manifests the things we can measure and experience as our physical Reality. By what reasonable rationale do you infer that it is capable of manifesting life or consciousness without fundamentally BEING life and consciousness? The distinction between animate and inanimate are functions of our limited and constrained perspective and time sense, something Arach has futilely tried to convey to you in a number of different ways. Of course, Arach has the same reservations about awareness that you do because of his acceptance of non-explanations like "emergence."
lol ... I love that last line ...

Its more like reservation with an aware field more than awareness. You see a unified field; I see fields interacting to form awareness. So I guess its an aware field vs sea of awareness. But I think they put us at the same place.

kind of anyway.
 
Old 11-08-2020, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Canada
11,123 posts, read 6,357,968 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Again, the immaterial comes from the material.



Due to corona, my wife is staying with my brother, so I have to work, cook, shop, clean, and look after my youngest daughter. So I do not have time to watch videos.


Does it? I don't see it that way because the laws do not have temperature, density, color, mass, volume, shape, a melting point, hardness, odor, length,etc.


Sorry to here that Harry, but you did not have to go into detail I understood what you were saying the first time. Time constraints I get because I work 14 to 16hr days so I do not have much time at all when I am working. That is why I said awhile ago I have to stop posting as my vacation was over. But these darn forums are addictive
 
Old 11-08-2020, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Canada
11,123 posts, read 6,357,968 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Your response is irrelevant to my post, but of course the immaterial effects us. But it always comes from a material source.

Do you have one example of a thought existing without a brain?



Yes, for over 2000 years, the science has always been natural forces, never a god did it.

and what you call natural forces are immaterial forces as they don't have temperature, density, color, mass, volume, shape, a melting point, hardness, odor, length,etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:23 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top