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And like you are doing here -- responding to something I didn't address.
I addressed the percent of people who see ID as being from god. Why don't you address that?
Good grief phet, it does not matter what percentage of people take the implications for the God of scripture, that has NOTHING to do with ID or the science behind it.
ID does not say the mind behind it all is the God of scripture, that is only an inference those apposed to ID place on it
I never made this claim. I simply pointed out that if there is some sort of invisible intelligent energy guiding the Universe it does not resemble any of the characteristics of the gods mentioned in current religions.
ID is not scientific and it's proponents are consistently trying to push it's non scientific religious agenda into public school science courses.
In 2007, a new “intelligent design” book entitled Explore Evolution (“EE”) appeared on the market. But students who read Explore Evolution will come away with a flat-out wrong understanding of evolution.
If you truly wanted to understand why ID is not scientific and learn why it's not based on the scientific method, I recommend you take the time to read this critique of Explore Evolution.
The National Center for Science Education and a team of consulting scientists have prepared this detailed chapter-by-chapter, page-by-page analysis of the book’s errors, failings, and distortions.
Please take the time to read this detailed chapter by chapter, page-by-page analysis of the book’s errors, failings, and distortions.
Good grief phet, it does not matter what percentage of people take the implications for the God of scripture, that has NOTHING to do with ID or the science behind it.
Good grief. Yes it does. People either accept a theory or don't. Some theories die, others live on.
Well if they are only pointing out alternatives as ID is doing and one of those alternatives is consciousness why is what they are doing called scientific and ID is not?
Harry's response
Quote:
Because aliens would be plausible but improbable. We are still waiting for actual evidence of an intelligent designer, which must be even more improbable according to creationist arguments.
Hmm the whole theory of origins is based on the improbable but you have no problem with that. Even though the math tells us there is simply not enough time, but you guys just ignore that fact.
And you evaded the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by*pneuma*
They don't say intelligent being they say consciousness.
Harry's response
Quote:
You are talking as if the two are separate for an*intelligent*designer.
No you are evading my question and the point that question makes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by*pneuma*
Now if you can show me a consciousness without a mind you might have something.
Harry's response
Quote:
No, this is what you need to show me, an intelligent, conscious being without a brain. If you can not do that, then we have no evidence it is even possible, which is a problem for an immaterial designer claim.
That is nothing more then trying to push aside my question and place the burden of proof on me. Can you show me a consciousness without a mind or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by*pneuma*
I already gave you one. The Matter Myth, Chapter 1: "The Death of Materialism"
Also if you google quantum mechanic and chaos theory and consciousness you will see quite a few books on it.
Plus you can look at wiki under materialism and the problems with it from quantum mechanic and chaos theory and Digital physics.
I never made this claim. I simply pointed out that if there is some sort of invisible intelligent energy guiding the Universe it does not resemble any of the characteristics of the gods mentioned in current religions.
And that is exactly what ID says.
Quote:
ID is not scientific and it's proponents are consistently trying to push it's non scientific religious agenda into public school science courses.
Then how come you say there is some sort of invisible intelligent energy guiding the Universe? why does quantum mechanics, chaos theory and Digital physics come to the same conclusion ID does that there is a consciousness behind it all? You can't say one is scientific and the other is not if they all come to the same conclusion.
Quote:
In 2007, a new “intelligent design” book entitled Explore Evolution (“EE”) appeared on the market. But students who read Explore Evolution will come away with a flat-out wrong understanding of evolution.
If you truly wanted to understand why ID is not scientific and learn why it's not based on the scientific method, I recommend you take the time to read this critique of Explore Evolution.
The National Center for Science Education and a team of consulting scientists have prepared this detailed chapter-by-chapter, page-by-page analysis of the book’s errors, failings, and distortions.
Please take the time to read this detailed chapter by chapter, page-by-page analysis of the book’s errors, failings, and distortions.
Long before the invention of the Abrahamic religions, modern humans also did not think these gods existed or invoked them when they observed natural events that could not be explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Then how come you say there is some sort of invisible intelligent energy guiding the Universe?
I'm certain I never stated this. I simply stated, *IF* there is some sort of invisible intelligent energy guiding the Universe it does not resemble any of the characteristics of the gods mentioned in current religions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
why does quantum mechanics, chaos theory and Digital physics come to the same conclusion ID does that there is a consciousness behind it all?
Quantum mechanics is a fundamental theory in physics and nowhere in this theory has a conclusion been made that there is a consciousness behind it all.
Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the study of chaos. There is no conclusion stating that there is a consciousness behind it.
Digital physics is not a scientific theory thus what ever claims are being made about it come from a pseudo science perspective. It appears it's nothing more than speculation. However no where is there a conclusion mentioned that there's a consciousness behind it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
You can't say one is scientific and the other is not if they all come to the same conclusion.
I can indeed say such a thing because ID is not scientific and is based on distortions and misrepresentations of modern science.
Long before the invention of the Abrahamic religions, modern humans also did not think these gods existed or invoked them when they observed natural events that could not be explained.
I'm certain I never stated this. I simply stated, *IF* there is some sort of invisible intelligent energy guiding the Universe it does not resemble any of the characteristics of the gods mentioned in current religions.
Quantum mechanics is a fundamental theory in physics and nowhere in this theory has a conclusion been made that there is a consciousness behind it all.
Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the study of chaos. There is no conclusion stating that there is a consciousness behind it.
Digital physics is not a scientific theory thus what ever claims are being made about it come from a pseudo science perspective.
I can indeed say such a thing because ID is not scientific and is based on distortions and misrepresentations of modern science.
I highly recommend that you do.
But it is a theory in Quantum mechanics that a consciousness is behind it all. Has this been proven yet? No but it is still a scientific inquiry, yet ID you say is not. That is like having your cake and eating it too.
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