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I am driving down the road and I see this very nice house I know someone must have designed it and just because I do not know who the designer was does not take away from the fact it was designed.
Just because a house was designed does not mean every complex system was designed.
And the watchmaker argument has something designed by something even more complex, which must therefore be designed by something even more complex, ad infinitum.
At the end of the comment I used to start this thread, I asked this question...
"How close or far are you to thinking same thing as I do? And why?"
Say on a scale of 0 to 10, 0 very far from thinking the same thing, 10 thinking exactly the same thing, how would you rank what you think compared to what I think? And why?
At the end of the comment I used to start this thread, I asked this question...
"How close or far are you to thinking same thing as I do? And why?"
Say on a scale of 0 to 10, 0 very far from thinking the same thing, 10 thinking exactly the same thing, how would you rank what you think compared to what I think? And why?
based on complexity versus volume ration and the basic definition of life in a book, I think life made life.
Just like we see a baby being assembled from non living parts and where gametes actually don't fit everything we use to classify life, I think life made life.
At the end of the comment I used to start this thread, I asked this question...
"How close or far are you to thinking same thing as I do? And why?"
Say on a scale of 0 to 10, 0 very far from thinking the same thing, 10 thinking exactly the same thing, how would you rank what you think compared to what I think? And why?
I suppose I have to say the usual single -figures % for an Intelligent creator being involved. The indirect evidence for an evolutionary process and the lack of any really good evidence for an intelligence behind it persuades me rather to suppose that some sort of natural start to life if more likely. I see the self -replication of the predecessor of DNA as the point that we can say non -life became at least the thing that makes for life rather than just chemical reaction.
Of course (rather as in a possible Creator of the universe) it is low %, but that if for a non -religious - specific thinking Creator. Any of the man -made gods of the man -made religions become (for me) a vanishingly low probability.
The argument (again, for me) has never been 'who made everything, then?' It has bee 'Why should we trust this or that man -made Holy Book?'
Just because a house was designed does not mean every complex system was designed.
And the watchmaker argument has something designed by something even more complex, which must therefore be designed by something even more complex, ad infinitum.
Do dismiss the possibility of design in all complex systems, no matter how improbable or complex they are?
I suppose I have to say the usual single -figures % for an Intelligent creator being involved. The indirect evidence for an evolutionary process and the lack of any really good evidence for an intelligence behind it persuades me rather to suppose that some sort of natural start to life if more likely. I see the self -replication of the predecessor of DNA as the point that we can say non -life became at least the thing that makes for life rather than just chemical reaction.
Of course (rather as in a possible Creator of the universe) it is low %, but that if for a non -religious - specific thinking Creator. Any of the man -made gods of the man -made religions become (for me) a vanishingly low probability.
The argument (again, for me) has never been 'who made everything, then?' It has bee 'Why should we trust this or that man -made Holy Book?'
I am starting to see some cracks, over time you are changing ever so slight.
when I first got here it was deny everything no matter how valid to fight religion.
then you moved to "I am only talking about deities"
now you mix in "why trust holy books."
its progress. I know the shift is due to learning more about science, but its a step in the right direction no matter what.
now all you do is accept that atheist like me are not the enemy. It terms of god belief that is. in terms of politics you and I can only end in war. I am freedom of religion liberal capitalists'. You guys guys can't have those types walking around talking to people.
Do dismiss the possibility of design in all complex systems, no matter how improbable or complex they are?
The evidence of design in a lot of complex systems is unarguable. The question is: 'Is there a valid reason to suppose that it is Intelligent design, such as in a house or Boeing Max...no, make that an A340 ...than natural design such as in a river delta or a whelk shell?
The arguments for an Intelligence behind 'design' have been made and have not stood up to question. Natural design is still the default. The possibility of I/D (Creation) still remains, but there is no reason to consider it probable unless one has not heard the rebuttals of the various I/D claims or chooses Faith instead.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-17-2020 at 07:57 AM..
The evidence of design in a lot of complex systems is unarguable. The question is: 'Is there a valid reason to suppose that it is Intelligent design, such as in a house or Boeing Max...no, make that an A340?
The arguments have been made and have not stood up to question. Natural design is still the default. The possibility of I/D (Creation) still remains, but there is no reason to consider it probable unless one has not heard the rebuttals of the various I/D claims or chooses Faith instead.
"Natural design" ... alive fits what we see. It fits it more than not alive.
if we are using the scientific method over faith that is.
if we are using atheist faith ... then ok,, I have blind faith in everything happens because of "natural": and I promise will not give anything for theist to use."
All hail "natural"
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