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I go out of my way to choose my words to make my meaning clear, and I absolutely abhor it when people try to make it sound as if I said something other than I did in order to make some point that's in their head. You're not the first one I've called out on using my posts to do that, and I'm sure you won't be the last.
This a widespread tactic here, MQ. They do it to my posts all the time. Arq is a prime offender. I initially assumed it was a lack of comprehension of what I actually said but I am coming to believe it is a deliberate tactic - aligned with straw-manning.
ahh, being clear is over rated here. Its doesn't make a difference. This is about is godfaith and striking back at some religion dopes. clarity does nothing but get in the way of it. or like one of my fellow atheist like to say clarity only slows us down so don't do it.
Which is a little more than "simply asking a question", because it is worded to make it appear that my statement implies what you said.
I go out of my way to choose my words to make my meaning clear, and I absolutely abhor it when people try to make it sound as if I said something other than I did in order to make some point that's in their head. You're not the first one I've called out on using my posts to do that, and I'm sure you won't be the last.
We all abhor different things. I abhor when people tell me what my intent was.
Ah, but isn't that what you did to me by replying to my post in a way that tried to make it sound as if I meant something other than what I did?
neener neener
You really crack me up, MQ. You remind me so very much of my own daughters. We went out of our way to equip them to be strong and assertive. I can remember when my firstborn didn't get a gumball after putting her penny in the machine. She looked to me and I told her that the manager of the store was the one to fix it. We found the manager and she told him about it and he gave her penny back and a gumball.
You really crack me up, MQ. You remind me so very much of my own daughters. We went out of our way to equip them to be strong and assertive. I can remember when my firstborn didn't get a gumball after putting her penny in the machine. She looked to me and I told her that the manager of the store was the one to fix it. We found the manager and she told him about it and he gave her penny back and a gumball.
Good girl.
I was extremely shy up until early adulthood. Deep down inside, I think I still am, but after years of learning to fake it to get over my social awkwardness, I became what I pretended to be. A few years ago I had to get up and do my part of a presentation in front of an audience of 500, and I realized I was enjoying it.
I still do best when expressing myself in written form, though.
Honestly, for those who are christians...you've gotta get your act together before you go out recruiting others. When you have situations when christians are killing other christians over christianity, you (again, royal you) don't have a solid foundation to preach to others. Just ask Joe and Hyrum Smith.
Oh, I know exactly what you mean. It is the nature of being fallen creatures that we fight amongst ourselves and are divided. And not every Christian is a real Christian. I know that's not a popular topic, but Jesus says so himself in his word. Now we can never say we know with any absoluteness that one person is a true Christian or not--but if one believes the Bible is the infallible word of God (which in my understanding, if you don't then I do not know what you are basing your beliefs on) then you must acknowledge the fact (based on the Bible) that every single person in the visible church is not a Christian.
Given what you said above, that is why it is SO IMPORTANT for Christians to strive to follow the Lord and examine their walk with Jesus. If we get too caught up in ourselves and the things of this world, our example to the world will, as you point out, very much undermine the message of our Lord and Saviour that we want to bring to the world.
We will not be perfect in this life. All of us who truly strive to walk closely with Jesus will always mess up in one way or another. But that does not give us the liberty to indulge in open sin. I understand that to be a huge reason why being a member of a Bible-believing Christ-centered church that practises church-discipline is so incredibly important. There can be times when we do not even realise we are straying from the path; that is when our brothers and sisters in Christ can help to lead us back.
Above all else, we need to point believers not to us but to Jesus. He is the perfect one, not us. When we bicker and fight amongst ourselves and show more the fruit of the devil than that of the Lord, then it does undermine the profession that Jesus changes our lives. If none of this is seen in our lives, then does he really? How can someone else know this? It appears when we indulge in sin and live lives that are not according to the commandments of God that Jesus doesn't have the power to do very much of anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I'm going to say again that I have heard christians AND ministers AND priests say that god never gives us situations that we can't handle. And then we get into the problem of what god gives us, and what just happens, and how christians often deal with that little debate, as well. And when that debate comes up, what's a common christian response? Something along the lines of, "God works in mysterious ways".
You're comment demonstrates how important it is for a Christian to know his Bible. I do not like divisions in the church either for Satan puts dissension between people; however--there is a huge difference between those Christians who believe the Bible is the infallible word of God and those who do not. As you point out further in your discussion, there are some who claim the Christian faith that say Jesus didn't really rise from the dead, but that it was an analogy. I'm sorry, but there is no point in Christianity if Jesus did not rise from the dead. A Lord that didn't rise from the dead is no Lord at all, but a dead person rotting away. That is why I sometimes use the term "Bible-believing" Christian when I talk about my own faith. If you start with the Bible as the foundation for absolute truth, there are still many divisions which can be made; but you really got to incorporate a huge part of additional fantasy (or take out a lot of parts and say "Oh, but that didn't really happen") into it if you do not have at the basis of the Bible-believing Christian's faith that Jesus came to earth as a sacrifice for sin so that all who believe upon him can have eternal life.
Divisions in the church are just going to happen as a consequence of living in a fallen world. It was there at the beginning of the New Testament church: when Paul writes about how some people say "I am of Paul. I am of Apollus. I am of Jesus". Those were divisions right there. Things secondary to salvation like can an infant be baptised or do they have to wait until they acknowledge faith are really not supremely important. The basics that the Bible answers is Why do we need Jesus and What does he do for us? You can have all sorts of doctrines that say this that or the other about some part of creation or exactly what God does and all his attributes and what not. I do believe there is only one correct interpretation of the Bible, but I do not believe that any one denomination has it 100% correct. God doesn't give us a doctrinal exam when we stand before him at judgment. He judges the heart. Are we looking to Jesus for salvation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
One of the things that we seem to have a problem with in this forum is trying to distinguish between what god actually said (does the bible actually say what god actually said?), and what various christians say god said.
Like I mentioned before, something founded on something other than God's word is just not Christianity. If it is, then like you state then you can make up whatever you want and call it Christianity. Say for example I describe myself as a Christian because I say I believe in Jesus. Ok, that's good you say. So what I'm going to do then is say that I will base my Christian belief on the beauty of trees in the woods. How beautiful they are in the autumn and isn't that a magnificent display of the beauty of Christ! So I gather a group of people together and we bow before the trees and say What a wonderful Lord is Jesus the Christ. Every month we will decorate a tree and hold a worship fest every Friday night beneath it. We will dance and sing of how great Jesus is for giving us the beautiful trees of the earth. Well, if Christianity is not based on the Bible, then the denomination I made up there would be a valid representation of Christianity.
So what God actually says is found in his word. Yes, it can be interpreted a number of ways. Some things in it are hard to understand. Yet there is only one correct interpretation. Interpretations must be objective. They must incorporate the entire word of God and not discard a verse here or there because it would make the interpretation we've arrived at untenable. Scripture must interpret Scripture. If something is unclear, we should look to other parts of God's word to see if he has made that topic any clearer in another part.
We should attend church to hear the word explained to us. The full counsel of God's word should be taught by a pastor to his congregation. The best way to do this is to preach through books of the Bible. That way, you can't skip a section because it's a tough one to explain or there is a lot of controversy about it. It is easy to cherry-pick the nice verses. But difficult passages in Deuteronomy and Judges can be swept under the rug because, oh we just don't talk about that. God declares in 2 Tim 3:16 that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
In answer to your other question. We deserve nothing at the hand of God but his wrath. What good we have is from the Lord and who am I to say that he cannot take it from me? As Job said, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Are we to accept good at the hand of the Lord but not evil?" When my husband passed away I said, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. I have accepted good from the hand of God and I must accept this calamity." I cannot demand from the Lord things to give me. All the world is his and what I have from him is by his mercy.
Daniel Harvey Hill, the American Civil War soldier God used to bring me to a knowing faith, wrote this in a letter to his wife right after the battle of Sharpsburg: "I do not know what tomorrow will bring, but our kind heavenly Father has ordained all things for our good, even if it means my own death or capture." In 1881, Hill and his wife lost their youngest darling daughter Harriet, 12 years old, to diphtheria. It destroyed him. His friend from his military service, Ratchford, said when he was talking to him one day, 7 years after his daughter had passed, he broke into tears and spoke of it as though it happened yesterday. Hill wrote to his son Joseph some time after his daughter died that he always found the good in things that happened to him, even when his daughter passed away.
I do not know enough yet to say I see the good in my husband passing away. But I do know by faith that ultimately the Lord intended it for good for me. Right now I do not know how that is, but that is why I must trust in the Lord and lean not on my own understanding.
Last edited by Basiliximab; 10-11-2020 at 04:35 PM..
In Islam, he keeps having the same suicide continiously in hell.
How about chrisitinity? Does christinity say the same or different for those who commit suicide?
How horrific, thankfully Jesus comforts us with his words found at John 11:11-14 that the dead ' sleep '.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach ' sleep ' ( Not pain ) in death:
- Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Thus, the Bible's hell ( grave ) is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Sleeping until 'Resurrection Day' ( meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth in righteousness )
When King James Version translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that wrongly put the flames in the grave.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever.
Thus, Gehenna was a fitting word for the the destruction of the wicked - Psalm 92:7.
Suicide does Not make a person as wicked, 'death ' is the total price tag that sin pays in full - Romans 6:23,7.
It is Not death plus any post-mortem penalty. No double jeopardy for the dead.
Rather, we can look forward to the Resurrection as mentioned at Acts 24:15
There will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous......
.............................As Job said, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. Are we to accept good at the hand of the Lord but not evil?" When my husband passed away I said, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. I have accepted good from the hand of God and I must accept this calamity." I cannot demand from the Lord things to give me. All the world is his and what I have from him is by his mercy...........................
I find we need to keep in mind that at the time of Job chapter 2 that it was Satan (Not God) who challenged Job.
Not just Job being challenged by Satan but all of us (Job 2:4-5)
Touch our 'flesh'... ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Satan is: the behind-the-scenes taker. Unlike us, Job did Not know about Satan's challenge.
Jesus teaches that God is our Father ( Farther means: Life Giver ) , Not life taker.
We die because of our own sins. If we could stop sinning we would Not suffer or die.
Because we can't stop sinning is why God provided Jesus as a ransom for us - Matthew 20:28
Time and unforeseen things happen to all of us - Ecclesiastes 9:11.
Calamity befell the people of Luke 13:4-5 just because of being in the wrong place, wrong time, nothing else.
Because the God of the Bible is also our Father (Life Giver) is why God provides the Resurrection Hope - Acts 24:15.
Right now, ' all the world ' is Satan's, the god of this corrupted world - 2 Cor. 4:4; 1 Peter 5:8-10; Ephesians 6:11
Comforting it is to know Satan's time is now limited - Revelation 12:12,9; Psalm 37:9-11
On 'Resurrection Day' (Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth ) we can be re-united with resurrected loved ones.
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