Is raising children in a particular faith indoctrination? (bible, Christianity, believing)
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So I didn't respond the way you wanted. I get that.
The de Grasse thing is spot on.
like I said, If I was running an experiment on how people respond ... yours is actually not a bad method for at least one type of interaction.
It's quite tiring trying to figure out life's answers and having to battle with people like you. You know it all but you will not allow others to search for their answers. Does this somehow extend your lifespan?
And the Neil deGrasse reference you offered had nothing whatsoever to do with evolution.
It's quite tiring trying to figure out life's answers and having to battle with people like you. You know it all but you will not allow others to search for their answers. Does this somehow extend your lifespan?
And the Neil deGrasse reference you offered had nothing whatsoever to do with evolution.
One of the building blocks for my own stance toward religion and religious belief is this simple thought experiment, which is basically the flipside of your observations above:
If we somehow wiped the slate clean, erasing current human knowledge and starting over in our quest to understand ourselves and the world... we would eventually end up right back where we are now. As we developed the right tools (telescopes, microscopes, endoscopes, logic, scientific method, mathematics, chemistry, physics, etc, etc), we would eventually learn how the heart pumps blood, how neurons work in the brain, how the planets orbit the sun, how the continents were formed, how dinosaurs lived and became extinct, how species evolved, how DNA carries information, how the universe is expanding, how volcanoes work, how the earth is spheroid, and so on. We might come to understand them in a different order, but all those truths are waiting to be revealed, and they would be unchanged.
We would never end up back where we are with religions, however. We might well create other deities (and the rules and rituals and strories that accompany and support them), but they would almost surely be different than what we "know" today.
That tells me a lot about the relative merits of these approaches to discovering the "truth." And how much confidence we should have in passing along that knowledge to our children, getting back to the topic at hand.
NOPE. Not so at all.
because you have missed the point altogether of how religion functions in a person's life, the reality of a person awakening to the part of themself that is their soul, the unfolding of where that awakening leads a person, and the relationship a person has with divinity, the Creator, and creation. Those are in your words "truths waiting to be revealed and they would be unchanged." Because they are a rudimentary part of the makeup of every human being: body, emotions, intellect, and spirit (or soul).
a person has free choice whether to develop, nourish, explore, discover, and become fluent in any of those parts of being human. they also have free choice to neglect, dismiss, and ignore them.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 11-04-2020 at 06:45 PM..
History, economics, medicine, science are just false beliefs, imaginary, or supernatural events/ideas? history is the Antonym of myth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel350z
No where do I see the meaning of myth in relation to fact, truth, certainty, non-fiction, reality. If there is a definition that says a myth is any of these things, please show me.
few things are more naive than claiming history is "fact, truth, certainty, non fiction, reality."
which seems to be what you are putting forth when you say history is the opposite of myth.
history oftentimes is none of the above. To claim that it is shows an astonishing naivete and lack of depth.
Another sorry post. Science doesn't accomplish any such thing, and we atheists are no more "not nice" than you folks are toward other belief systems. Quit playing the martyr.
It's quite tiring trying to figure out life's answers and having to battle with people like you. You know it all but you will not allow others to search for their answers. Does this somehow extend your lifespan?
And the Neil deGrasse reference you offered had nothing whatsoever to do with evolution.
As OSHO said, every man seeks recognition. Recognition by others gives false sense of completion. Of being whole. Conscious Self, lost in bonds of senses and physical life, has that faint knowing of being lost, belonging to something different... recognition gives it valium.
history is (as my grandfather said grinning) "his story."
i remember in high school there was a classmate who seriously, honestly, actually believed that women were stupid and inferior and contributed nothing to humanity and had no accomplishments because "if they did it would be in the history books. they are not in the history books so they haven't done anything." he actually believed that. he actually believed that what was in the history books was fact.
NOPE. Not so at all.
because you have missed the point altogether of how religion functions in a person's life, the reality of a person awakening to the part of themself that is their soul, and the unfolding of where that awakening leads a person. those are in your words "truths waiting to be revealed and they would be unchanged." Because they are a rudimentary part of the makeup of every human being: body, emotions, intellect, and spirit (or soul).
a person has free choice whether to develop, nourish, explore, discover, and become fluent in any of those parts of being human. they also have free choice to neglect, dismiss, and ignore them.
[SIGH] Speaking of missing the point... my post addressed none of those things you describe, so there was no point to be missed. Knock yourself out, if you want to wax poetic about about how religion functions in a person's life... or notions of "awakening" or "souls" or "where that leads"... or emotions or intellect or spirit or nourishment or exploration or discovery... or free choice... or any other ethereal concepts you might care to toss around. But they have no relation to my post, which focused entirely on the objective facts (or more accurately, things we understand to be facts), contrasting those we have learned by studying and understanding the world around us and how it works... with those we have "learned" (using that term loosely) by creating deities and building religious structures around those deities.
My thought experiment stands as written. To recap and extend, if we wiped out our current knowledge of how the human body works, or how the earth is shaped, or how it and other planets move around the sun, or how species evolved... we would eventually discover (or uncover) those things again, and those facts would be just as they are now. By contrast, there is no reason to think that we would (and every reason to think that we would NOT) work our way back to the same configuration of deities and stories and rituals that we have today, in the realm of religion. If we somehow started over again, we would almost surely never hear of talking snakes and donkeys, or the Garden of Eden, or Noah's ark, or Muhammad riding the Buraq, or Joseph Smith's golden plates, or ancient Hebrew tribes lost in North America, or Thor's hammer, or Zeus' lightning bolts, or Neptune's trident, or the KJV, or Purgatory, or Transubstantiation, or the Last Supper, or stone tablets from Mt Sinai, or David and Goliath, or planet-toting turtles, or an entire gang of Hindi gods and goddesses with extra sets of arms, or Loki or Baal or Satan, or alien Thetans, or Scientology Audits, or, or, or...... (sorry space won't allow more, insert your favorites here).
Why won't we reproduce that same cast of characters, with their idiosyncracies and rules and expectations, with their own particular ways of communicating with their creations (or not)? Because they are all transparently human creations, and the next set of humans, unencumbered by all that prior "knowledge," would come up with something completely different. For me, that calls into question the entire collection.
No, it’s not indoctrination. When my kids were born, I was an adult, able to decide if my mom’s religion or my dad’s agnosticism or something else was the truth. I taught my kids what I believed to be the truth.
I'm and atheist, and I taught my kids to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible. And they are teaching their children the same. If they would have chosen a religion, I would have supported them, but glad they didn't.
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