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Faith and rationalism are not opposite ends of a spectrum. That I agree with.
I have faith in some people to do what they say they are going to do based on past experiences with them, based on current choices they make... so basically faith in this context is evidence-based predicting. Even if things don't go as expected, there is some reasoning that I will probably find relatable, or the problem can be easily fixed with help.
Now for those whose choices have deepened their problems or kept the problem hanging around, I wouldn't say I lack faith in their self-agency because I think that would be mean and unhelpful. If they told me they loved me, I would believe it. If they said they want to change their ways, I would believe it. But the faith for the people mentioned in the preceding paragraph is different than this faith.
I think there is ideal faith and practical faith but they do not really sit on opposite sides of a spectrum where one should be taught and the other not. I think they are just there. For example, if we were all asked to write the letter "a", we would have this ideal picture in our head, but the actual script would be different from the ideal and from person to person. Or that time when I carried out a long conversation in Spanish in my dream but can't get a full sentence out in real life (I grew up with bilingual adults).
Or maybe it is faith in the potential and faith in the potential realized, again, not on opposite sides of a spectrum. It is just there.
I think rationalism is knowing what faith one is operating on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
correct again ... its about lessening personal bias and error. We can't remove it.
I am putting you on ignore.
I do that when facts get in the way of my opinion. Nothing personal.
Me on ignore? Well, I've seen others get on the ignore list and then off of it, so there is hope for me.
you whole demeanor in that building was getting even at society. I have seen it in action. You are going to show us how it works. Your version.
I'd rather say it was applying the procedures of society as they are. They are designed to exclude personal agendas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
correct again ... its about lessening personal bias and error. We can't remove it.
I am putting you on ignore.
I do that when facts get in the way of my opinion. Nothing personal.
Lol That was a good one. But you aren't really putting Elyn on Ignore, are you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
You can't have as much revenge as you do and not show it Phet. No way.
Yeah, you didn't tell kids when to have sex. But you are sure did/do tell my kid he is going to have to pay for kids having babies.
BS you didn't make it known what political party to belong to. I seriously doubt you present the liberal with limits point of view in an unbias manor.
Good job by you.
Arach, mate, you were doing so well. Don't ruin it by going political. It's terminally off -topic for one thing, and back to front for the other (the religious Right does 'quiverful').
I'd rather say it was applying the procedures of society as they are. They are designed to exclude personal agendas.
Lol That was a good one. But you aren't really putting Elyn on Ignore, are you.
Arach, mate, you were doing so well. Don't ruin it by going political. It's terminally off -topic for one thing, and back to front for the other (the religious Right does 'quiverful').
It's almost laughable how Arach knows so much about a person -- in this case me -- that he can make these judgements about my professional life. So I think it's time for him to put up or shut up. And tell us what he really knows about me:
What's my name?
What school system did I work for for the the last 20 years of my career before retiring?
Which school was I principal of?
How successful a school were we? Comparatively, what were our state test scores like? What was our GT program like? What was our special education program like? How did our minority students fare? Who were the teachers -- by name (since he has made the charge) -- in our school who imparted their religious beliefs on others? Was our sex ed program opt-in, opt-out, or something else entirely?
It's become clear over the months that Arach has had issues with public schools in whatever den of iniquity his children have been enrolled in. But is the problem that school system, or is the problem Arach? How exactly -- EXACTLY -- did that school system "tell my kid he is going to have to pay for kids having babies"? How exactly -- EXACTLY -- did those teachers inculcate his kids in politics and religion?
Arach is very talented at one thing -- character assassination based on prejudice -- preconceived opinions that are not based on actual experience about the individual he heaps generalizations upon, but rather his personal experiences in totally different localities with other people.
Don't get me wrong. We can all be accused of some of those tactics from time to time, and we use them it's perfectly okay to be called on them.
Faith and rationalism are not opposite ends of a spectrum. That I agree with.
I have faith in some people to do what they say they are going to do based on past experiences with them, based on current choices they make... so basically faith in this context is evidence-based predicting. Even if things don't go as expected, there is some reasoning that I will probably find relatable, or the problem can be easily fixed with help.
I think rationalism is knowing what faith one is operating on.
This is how I use the term 'faith'. I don't use it here though because such use is at odds with religious folks use of it. I also don't use the word believe for the same reason. To me, 'believe' means I think so but don't know for sure. I might say; "I am given to believe such" meaning that is what I have been told and it seems reasonable to accept but I have not positively confirmed it. Same thing with 'faith'. I have faith in my '97 CRV, knowing that it is relatively unreliable and could break down but it hasn't so far, hence my faith in it.
This is how I use the term 'faith'. I don't use it here though because such use is at odds with religious folks use of it. I also don't use the word believe for the same reason. To me, 'believe' means I think so but don't know for sure. I might say; "I am given to believe such" meaning that is what I have been told and it seems reasonable to accept but I have not positively confirmed it. Same thing with 'faith'. I have faith in my '97 CRV, knowing that it is relatively unreliable and could break down but it hasn't so far, hence my faith in it.
So faith and belief imply uncertainty.
I agree, and if "believers" stated that, it would cause less distress to many people.
I'd rather say it was applying the procedures of society as they are. They are designed to exclude personal agendas.
Lol That was a good one. But you aren't really putting Elyn on Ignore, are you.
Arach, mate, you were doing so well. Don't ruin it by going political. It's terminally off -topic for one thing, and back to front for the other (the religious Right does 'quiverful').
Stick with the facts of what I said. I said I see now way a guy like phet can not drip his views all over the place.
Based on my experience with people, I stand by it.
Faith and rationalism are not opposite ends of a spectrum. That I agree with.
I have faith in some people to do what they say they are going to do based on past experiences with them, based on current choices they make... so basically faith in this context is evidence-based predicting. Even if things don't go as expected, there is some reasoning that I will probably find relatable, or the problem can be easily fixed with help.
Now for those whose choices have deepened their problems or kept the problem hanging around, I wouldn't say I lack faith in their self-agency because I think that would be mean and unhelpful. If they told me they loved me, I would believe it. If they said they want to change their ways, I would believe it. But the faith for the people mentioned in the preceding paragraph is different than this faith.
I think there is ideal faith and practical faith but they do not really sit on opposite sides of a spectrum where one should be taught and the other not. I think they are just there. For example, if we were all asked to write the letter "a", we would have this ideal picture in our head, but the actual script would be different from the ideal and from person to person. Or that time when I carried out a long conversation in Spanish in my dream but can't get a full sentence out in real life (I grew up with bilingual adults).
Or maybe it is faith in the potential and faith in the potential realized, again, not on opposite sides of a spectrum. It is just there.
I think rationalism is knowing what faith one is operating on.
Me on ignore? Well, I've seen others get on the ignore list and then off of it, so there is hope for me.
lol ...
More like their is hope for us by listening to you ...
It's almost laughable how Arach knows so much about a person -- in this case me -- that he can make these judgements about my professional life. So I think it's time for him to put up or shut up. And tell us what he really knows about me:
What's my name?
What school system did I work for for the the last 20 years of my career before retiring?
Which school was I principal of?
How successful a school were we? Comparatively, what were our state test scores like? What was our GT program like? What was our special education program like? How did our minority students fare? Who were the teachers -- by name (since he has made the charge) -- in our school who imparted their religious beliefs on others? Was our sex ed program opt-in, opt-out, or something else entirely?
It's become clear over the months that Arach has had issues with public schools in whatever den of iniquity his children have been enrolled in. But is the problem that school system, or is the problem Arach? How exactly -- EXACTLY -- did that school system "tell my kid he is going to have to pay for kids having babies"? How exactly -- EXACTLY -- did those teachers inculcate his kids in politics and religion?
Arach is very talented at one thing -- character assassination based on prejudice -- preconceived opinions that are not based on actual experience about the individual he heaps generalizations upon, but rather his personal experiences in totally different localities with other people.
Don't get me wrong. We can all be accused of some of those tactics from time to time, and we use them it's perfectly okay to be called on them.
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That was a good one. But you aren't really putting Elyn on Ignore, are you.
