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I'm about as "pro-Chrstian" a Jew as you'll ever find. But I would never ever spell out the full word, as halachically it's considered a form of supporting or promoting idol worship. I don't spell the word differently to send a message to the Chrstians. I simply do it to maintain my world to come. Sorry, no hate or conspiracy, if that's what people were looking for.
That's along the lines of what I suspected the answer might be. I don't find that explanation offensive.
Not offensive, no. Just perplexing. Please see my post right before yours. I'm Jewish (as you know) and I still don't know where this idea came from. I also noticed that Rosends doesn't seem to have a problem with writing out the words "Christian" or "Christianity," and he's a rabbi.
"May one say the name Jesus or Yeshu? the custom of all Jewry dating back many generations is to avoid saying these names and rather the term “Oso Ish” or “Yoshka” is used in its stead. One is not Heaven forefend to break this custom. May one say the word C-r-st? One is not to use this term as it connotes a Messiah and savior, and according to some even a deity, and so is the custom of all Jewry to not say this term." https://shulchanaruchharav.com/halacha/nittel-nacht/
"R' Hildesheimer writes that the traditional practice has been to avoid explicitly mentioning the name of JC (referring to him instead as oso ha'ish - "that person"), and it is proper to uphold that practice." " There is a prohibition against mentioning the name of a foreign deity. (Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 147). According to the sources cited there by the Gra (YD 147:2), the prohibition applies if the name was given for the purpose of deification." https://judaism.stackexchange.com/qu...me/22838#22838
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 11-15-2020 at 09:51 PM..
"May one say the name Jesus or Yeshu?
the custom of all Jewry dating back many generations is to avoid saying these names and rather the term “Oso Ish” or “Yoshka” or “Yoshke Pandre” is used in its stead. One is not Heaven forefend to break this custom."
"May one say the word Christ?
One is not to use this term as it connotes a Messiah and savior, and according to some even a deity, and so is the custom of all Jewry to not say this term."
Interestingly, the word "Christian" is written in its entirety on that page you linked. Perhaps because it refers to the people and not to Jesus? Which is what I've been saying all along.
Edited to add: Further reading of that page at your link emphasizes a difference between saying a word and writing a word.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 11-15-2020 at 09:36 PM..
"R' Hildesheimer writes that the traditional practice has been to avoid explicitly mentioning the name of JC (referring to him instead as oso ha'ish - "that person"), and it is proper to uphold that practice." " There is a prohibition against mentioning the name of a foreign deity. (Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 147). According to the sources cited there by the Gra (YD 147:2), the prohibition applies if the name was given for the purpose of deification." https://judaism.stackexchange.com/qu...me/22838#22838
I am responding to your post that you edited again last night after I had already responded to it the first time:
This additional source you quoted applies only to the spoken name of Jesus -- and says nothing about altering the words "Christian" and "Christianity" in writing. I see that you also changed the original quote (I've highlighted your change in blue text), which I don't quite believe is "kosher."
Here is a quote from the same source that you linked:
Quote:
In short, if a name of a deity is used regularly and not in the context of divinity one is permitted to invoke it. The prohibition is only when he invokes the name in the context of divinity and when it connotes a deity, but if it is just a name given to a person or object the fact that its origin is pagan is insignificant and its use is permitted. For this reason he says the sages called Jesus by his name, since it was not used in such a context.
The words "Christian" and "Christianity" are used regularly to refer to a people and a religion, and you have not shown where Judaic law requires us to write "Crstn" and "Crstnty". I think that you are a bit confused, Tzaphkiel, and that you have assumed a chumra (stringency in halachic interpretation) that you decided on by yourself.
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to assume a chumra. I just think that this appears to be something of your own devising (or something you may have half-heard about somewhere).
The prohibition is when he invokes the name in the context of divinity and when it connotes a deity.
The prohibition applies if the name was given for the purpose of deification.
1. the usage connotes divinity.
2. it is for the purpose of deification.
and
3. talk about the topic, not the person posting.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 11-16-2020 at 07:12 AM..
1. the usage connotes divinity.
2. it is for the purpose of deification.
and
3. talk about the topic, not the person posting.
1. No, it does not.
2. No, it is not.
3. It is impossible to talk about the topic without attempting to fathom your reasons for writing "Cristn" and "Cristnty."
Here's one for you: Please stop altering other people's quotes to suit your purposes. As you did again here:
Quote:
The prohibition is when he invokes the name in the context of divinity and when it connotes a deity.
The prohibition applies if the name was given for the purpose of deification.
Original quote with omitted words added back in for proper context:
Quote:
In short, if a name of a deity is used regularly and not in the context of divinity one is permitted to invoke it. The prohibition is only when he invokes the name in the context of divinity and when it connotes a deity, but if it is just a name given to a person or object the fact that its origin is pagan is insignificant and its use is permitted. For this reason he says the sages called Jesus by his name, since it was not used in such a context.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 11-16-2020 at 07:27 AM..
Not offensive, no. Just perplexing. Please see my post right before yours. I'm Jewish (as you know) and I still don't know where this idea came from.
I also noticed that Rosends doesn't seem to have a problem with writing out the words "Christian" or "Christianity," and he's a rabbi.
I believe it is offensive to call something a religion reveres by some other name coined to distort it. The name has meaning for the practitioners, it is deeply symbolic and spiritual (i am talking in general, not pertaining to Christ alone). To take that and distort it is disrespectful, willful , and ignorant.
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