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I put this to Mystic and received no feedback so I'll put it to you. It addresses your statement I promise.
Let's back this up a level. Isn't the real issue being discussed is how we got here/how the universe got here? Isn't that what God attempts to answer? So if we ask that question and someone says "a creator God" and I say "that's inconclusive/not proven" that only means I've rejected that claim as established. I'm not attempting to answer it myself.
I didn't fail to answer, L8. i simply did not answer in the way you desired. In my existential view, the actual question is NOT "how we got here" but it is what IS here. In my view, existence IS God and we are merely part of it - the part that reproduces it (you know as children tend to do). The Creator notion places God outside of existence. My view places God AS existence and God's life processes are the reason there are fixed processes ("laws") of physics, chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience, etc.
Yes, that is the real issue.
But that could not be properly addressed in this thread, and stay within the "Defining Atheism" topic.
Though...saying "that's inconclusive/not proven"...is a "belief position" about the claim. Not a "lack of belief" about the matter.
It isn't a matter of "what I see" as "stronger, more legit, better. or makes more sense or is more logical"...it's a matter of what IS "stronger, more legit, better. or makes more sense or is more logical".
And that wouldn't be the modish, indolent and torpid version that is patently spurious and irrational.
Atheism is cool (I was one my whole adult life)...when it's asseverative, and it's adherents take a definitive stand.
Tell me about watcha got...not about whatcha "lack"!
That has been done many times, but of course, you never had any intent to listen and learn. Again, nobody cares what you assert is so about atheism. The go -to source of information is atheists, not anti -atheists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
That used to be evidence to me that tipped toward the likelihood of a creator. It makes more sense to me now that it is an evolutionary advantage. Seeing agency, even when it not there, was an advantage when everything could have been trying to eat you.
Absolutely. It seems to fit the evidence better that the idea of a god/religion and all the certainties, assurances and easy answers, not to mention keeping people in line and under control has more to do with evolutionary advantages than with perception of what the actual facts are.
I didn't fail to answer, L8. i simply did not answer in the way you desired. In my existential view, the actual question is NOT "how we got here" but it is what IS here. In my view, existence IS God and we are merely part of it - the part that reproduces it (you know as children tend to do). The Creator notion places God outside of existence. My view places God AS existence and God's life processes are the reason there are fixed processes ("laws") of physics, chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience, etc.
That question was the last post on that thread so you didn't answer. This is an answer tho.
I explained that already.
I see it as illogical to claim a "lack of belief" in a idea/matter that one has considered and/or contemplated.
The ONLY way one could "lack belief" in any concept/issue...is if they have never considered it. As once they have...they inevitably possess a "belief position" relative to it.
Most Atheists have considered and contemplated the matter as to whether a God/Deities exist....so, they necessarily have a "Belief Position" concerning it.
In fact...it is formally defined by some as not just a Belief, but a belief so perfervid it is deemed a DOCTRINE.
THAT is a much more logical and reasonable definition...especially relative to most of the Atheists on this board. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/at...%20or%20beings.
That question was the last post on that thread so you didn't answer. This is an answer tho.
Q: What IS here?
M: God. God IS existence.
I don't even know what you mean by that.
That is not surprising. It is a very "out there" notion not generally part of thinking about God. As I see it, Everything that exists is part of the entity God and its living processes. From our vantage point inside God, we see all the myriad (and incomprehensible) components that form the "Body and Brain" of God. We are among the brain components distributed throughout what we call the universe that transforms physical matter into sentience (consciousness). The consciousness we and all other sentient beings transform from matter resides in what we call the unmeasurable and ever-increasing and accelerating expansion of the vacuum of space by dark energy (that together with dark matter comprise 95+% of our universe).
Last edited by MysticPhD; 12-14-2020 at 10:12 PM..
I explained that already.
I see it as illogical to claim a "lack of belief" in a idea/matter that one has considered and/or contemplated.
The ONLY way one could "lack belief" in any concept/issue...is if they have never considered it. As once they have...they inevitably possess a "belief position" relative to it.
Most Atheists have considered and contemplated the matter as to whether a God/Deities exist....so, they necessarily have a "Belief Position" concerning it.
In fact...it is formally defined by some as not just a Belief, but a belief so perfervid it is deemed a DOCTRINE.
THAT is a much more logical and reasonable definition...especially relative to most of the Atheists on this board. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/at...%20or%20beings.
Define belief then and let us see if that matches up.
Define belief then and let us see if that matches up.
Belief, to me, is: The mindset, based upon a scale of estimated probability, that something is or isn't so, or how it is...as per what is being assessed.
Anything whatsoever that is contemplated and considered, one will inexorably form a "Belief" about it.
It is impossible not to form a belief about anything that has been taken under consideration.
You cannot "lack" a belief about anything that has ever entered your mind...it's mentally reflexive.
Belief, to me, is: The mindset, based upon a scale of estimated probability, that something is or isn't so, or how it is...as per what is being assessed.
Anything whatsoever that is contemplated and considered, one will inexorably form a "Belief" about it.
It is impossible not to form a belief about anything that has been taken under consideration.
You cannot "lack" a belief about anything that has ever entered your mind...it's mentally reflexive.
Yes. Tell those Anti -atheists who deny that such a binary position is valid.
Of course the problem is, the equivocation finds the atheist -bashers taking up opposite positions.
Setting aside whether a believer or non -believer was ever thinking about it (which is irrelevant to what the evidence factually supports) then the evidence (sliding -scale of support for the plausibility of the claim...all the Bayesian stuff (1) one has the case amended by arguing out the evidence (as we do here) and a belief -position (on evidence or indeed Faith - i.e rejection of the evidence n favour of personal preference)does present itself to the one considering it.
Then one either find oneself saying ' well I'm not convinced, or that amazing moment of damn....that's right. I was wrong. Or possibly the very thin coin edge of simply not wing ably to believe or not. Though I reckon not being sure would mandate non -belief until one was more sure.
(1) which of course affects the known not known position, inadequate evidence for a god leaving it 'unknown' Which I prefer to 'cannot be known' which strixes me as an oxymoron - how can one know what may or may not ever be known?
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