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Old 12-03-2020, 10:52 AM
 
6,222 posts, read 3,997,745 times
Reputation: 733

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
Your primary goal here is to push religion out of society.

that is a political agenda. And I have zero problem with it when you present it as such. Its souldnt be in here. when we have to shut down threads because they are not binary in only telling theist how wrong they are about a deity ... well, yoiu know trans.

You claim I have something against atheism. I don't. atheism definition is its definition and I am an atheist. I have a problem with how some atheist limit discussion on things like: what might be "the mystery of life" because it began to ... do what exactly? Hurt your atheism?

just why is talking about that meaningless to you but it most certainty is meaningful to people in spirituality?

And ... to top it off ... it had evidence. you may not agree with it ... but you most certainty saw it. ashiest are logical bunch. thats for damn sure.

You know I know that you know I know you know that you know.

You can't even reword it to sell it to me trans. And I am easy to sell to, I am a sucker when you have stone cold logic. anything but "We obscure some things because we really see a need for social change."

thats what you are telling is the reason that you think I am anti-atheist? really trans?
I've met one other person who loved their worldview to the point of it actually being their significant other. Their worldview is so sacred to them they are willing to say or do anything to preserve it.

 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:02 AM
 
6,222 posts, read 3,997,745 times
Reputation: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The only repetition that is bothersome here is the repetition of valid theist arguments that contravene the prevailing atheist orthodoxy here in the forum because the monotonous atheist drivel that is repeated here ad nauseum never seems to bother anyone enough to close threads.
.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:09 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,302,670 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are arguing against a non-existent straw man. The problem is that everything you say is true but it ALSO applies to you and your position as well because we do not know what our Reality is or is not, period. Your desire to pretend that the default MUST be NOT God is bogus. The so-called working definitions in the A&A forum are bogus because they IMPLICITLY assume the atheist position to be true until proven otherwise. That is NOT how objectivity works.
As long as you are making all the definitions, setting all the rules, the only one that can make claims there is no objectivity. S9rry but burden of proof, science abs definition do not need to be under your cintrol.

Your claim of objectivity are false. The definitions of the A and a subforum works of atheists and theists alike . Your insulting and demeaning of anyone who uses these definitions is what inhibits discussion and your derailing threads to turn into your pet claims is what closes threads.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:27 AM
 
63,574 posts, read 39,862,781 times
Reputation: 7821
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are arguing against a non-existent straw man. The problem is that everything you say is true but it ALSO applies to you and your position as well because we do not know what our Reality is or is not, period. Your desire to pretend that the default MUST be NOT God is bogus. The so-called working definitions in the A&A forum are bogus because they IMPLICITLY assume the atheist position to be true until proven otherwise. That is NOT how objectivity works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
As long as you are making all the definitions, setting all the rules, the only one that can make claims there is no objectivity. S9rry but burden of proof, science abs definition do not need to be under your cintrol.

Your claim of objectivity are false. The definitions of the A and a subforum works of atheists and theists alike . Your insulting and demeaning of anyone who uses these definitions is what inhibits discussion and your derailing threads to turn into your pet claims is what closes threads.
Clearly, you are unable to draw your own conclusions or see the derivations of them. Atheism assumes that NO God has anything to do with our existence without having to demonstrate that is true or demonstrating what DOES have anything to do with our existence. Atheism says we cannot know what our existence is all about but atheists can know it doesn't involve God. They establish this circular argument about the default which simply presumes there is no God until proven otherwise without establishing scientifically what it IS that is NOT God. It is all presumption by consensus, period. Now, what about that do you NOT comprehend, badlander????
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:36 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,302,670 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
no, not in this case. it not like a definition.

You can actually ignore the centuries old stuff in heart beat. they are woefully incomplete. I wouldn't even look at centuries old stuff anymore. I past the big "first" type stuff.

Plus words change over time as we use them differently. I think atheism was different wording back 100's/1000's of years. It may be literally translated differently. my mom use the word "gay" to mean happy. nothing more.

Its definition was different back then. Look at trunk of a car. what does the word trunk mean today?

so we are atheist. we don't think about god ... this case I am asking you take a measurement on the system. without god.

if you know anything, life is very nebulas and there is no one thing that makes it. You ask an astrophysics and he will tell you its all about information. they don't go into detail on tv because its high level stuff. they only look for information exchange and more energy in than out of an object.

lopok at biology 101. The one thing that is thought all the time is that we are NOT sure what life is but this is what we think here on earth. Most biology teachers say something like that at the start and never say it again. but for us, you and me (now I know you are trained in science right? geology. so I will be talking to you differently) talking about proof and supporting claims, we need to be a little more precise..

so although we give a definition the people in the know understand why we are saying it like we do.

I think its the same for the definition of atheism. The levels 3's are the level 3's. write the definition down, repeat it three times. and move on.

the level-1's are entitled to talking about words expressing ideas and failing short when applied to people. indoctrination is telling people we are free thinkers then limiting them binary answers.
We have a trunk upstairs in our house. A car trunk was originally a trunk strapped onto the back of an automobile and is called a boot in England. I don't know what it is called in Italy or Spain. I don't know from personal experience that there is an Italy or Spain so need to resort to believing others.

I refuse to ignore what I have leant from others. Even the words life and biology were taught to us. Biosphere is a term recognized in Earth and Life sciences m to ignore that fact is to promote ignorance and self grandeur. If I have been told that ingesting some of the chemicals in my darkroom or my wife's studio are toxic or poisonous I would be a fool to insist they are not until I find out for myself.

The fallacy of the Authority is if you claim it is true because some person says so. It is not repeating well established principles and terms. Italy and Spain exists because those locations have in fact been well established. The term Biosphere exists because it is a well established term with a well established definition.

My minor was geology my major was physical geography. While I had courses in biology my geography was for the most part Geomorphology and Biogeography, the latter being studing the relationships of life with the land as well as spacial distributions.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,634 posts, read 4,918,942 times
Reputation: 2087
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Clearly, you are unable to draw your own conclusions or see the derivations of them. Atheism assumes that NO God has anything to do with our existence without having to demonstrate that is true or demonstrating what DOES have anything to do with our existence. Atheism says we cannot know what our existence is all about but atheists can know it doesn't involve God. They establish this circular argument about the default which simply presumes there is no God until proven otherwise without establishing scientifically what it IS that is NOT God. It is all presumption by consensus, period. Now, what about that do you NOT comprehend, badlander????
Your need to misrepresent our position is dishonest. we do not say it does not involve a god, we say we have no evidence for this. It is you who says we do not know but we know it is a god and assert atheists can not refute that.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:40 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,302,670 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Clearly, you are unable to draw your own conclusions or see the derivations of them. Atheism assumes that NO God has anything to do with our existence without having to demonstrate that is true or demonstrating what DOES have anything to do with our existence. Atheism says we cannot know what our existence is all about but atheists can know it doesn't involve God. They establish this circular argument about the default which simply presumes there is no God until proven otherwise without establishing scientifically what it IS that is NOT God. It is all presumption by consensus, period. Now, what about that do you NOT comprehend, badlander????
I'm brain dead I guess not seeing you as the only one who knows anything.

I see you only trying to shuttle yet another thread because it's not all about you.

I refuse to discuss you simple word game even you use advanced words it's still a cheap simple word game crafted so you cannot be debated with.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
14,748 posts, read 9,684,201 times
Reputation: 11864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Lack of credible evidence from theists.
As an comparable example... there is no credible evidence that life exists outside of Earth, yet we continue to search.

Evidence is finite, belief isn't. One is bound by the barrier of knowledge the other has no bounds and opens the mind to endless possibility of discovery.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 11:59 AM
 
63,574 posts, read 39,862,781 times
Reputation: 7821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
Your need to misrepresent our position is dishonest. we do not say it does not involve a god, we say we have no evidence for this. It is you who says we do not know but we know it is a god and assert atheists can not refute that.
Your need to misrepresent my position is dishonest. I say NEITHER of us can SCIENTIFICALLY establish our positions irrefutably, but YOU want to claim that the default must be YOUR position until we can. That is dirty pool and you know it.
 
Old 12-03-2020, 12:10 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
We have a trunk upstairs in our house. A car trunk was originally a trunk strapped onto the back of an automobile and is called a boot in England. I don't know what it is called in Italy or Spain. I don't know from personal experience that there is an Italy or Spain so need to resort to believing others.

I refuse to ignore what I have leant from others. Even the words life and biology were taught to us. Biosphere is a term recognized in Earth and Life sciences m to ignore that fact is to promote ignorance and self grandeur. If I have been told that ingesting some of the chemicals in my darkroom or my wife's studio are toxic or poisonous I would be a fool to insist they are not until I find out for myself.

The fallacy of the Authority is if you claim it is true because some person says so. It is not repeating well established principles and terms. Italy and Spain exists because those locations have in fact been well established. The term Biosphere exists because it is a well established term with a well established definition.

My minor was geology my major was physical geography. While I had courses in biology my geography was for the most part Geomorphology and Biogeography, the latter being studing the relationships of life with the land as well as spacial distributions.
thats awesome. so we can dispense with the all the bs. You can do whatever you want with the dated information. In my neck of the world physical geology was like physical chemistry, very rigorous. I will talk to you differently now, I assume background knowledge. Enough to keep up anyway.

we are trained in measurements and observation tell us what is going on. Not a definition from a book that may or may not actually match the surroundings. and most certainty not social change.

I look forward to our next meeting.
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