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Then until we do know what it is, it does nothing to validate your faith -claims. Stop wasting our time.
But it does nothing to validate your desired default claim either, Arq. So stop wasting everybody's time asking for evidence. There is none to be had including to support your atheism.
You don't get it? It's simple. A gap for god is not a validation of god. The same applies to any mystical claim. Which answer the other posts above.
the validation comes from a person's individual participation.
the demands for proof are inane.
the only validation that matters is that which a person finds for themself.
through individual participation.
it's like a map. paths of religion and spirituality are a map. the only way to find out if the directions on the map, and the features on the map are valid, is to follow the map, explore the territory, discover the regions described, and find out.
arguing about the map, complaining about the map, or the color of the map or the language the map is written in, or the typeface of the map, or the age of the map are useless. the way to find out what the map describes is to follow the map and explore the regions it takes you.
But it does nothing to validate your desired default claim either, Arq. So stop wasting everybody's time asking for evidence. There is none to be had including to support your atheism.
We can't prove anything but we have enough data to talk about things here. We can list things we have that has science data to see if it matches. What claims do we have that are matches best?
Deity
thinking unversed
living universe
"lack belief" ... deny everything so we don't be dishonest and give them any ammo to use against atheism.
Add any others for considerations.
Be sure to include why we pick what we pick.
Put them in order of relative reliability and see where they flush out for most people.
if we can't prove anything but we have to to talk about things here. We can list things we have that has science data to see if it matches. What claims do we have that are matcher best?
Deity
thinking unversed
living universe
"lack belief" ... deny everything so we don't be dishonest and give them any ammo to use against atheism.
Add any others for considerations.
Be sure to include why we pick what we pick.
Put them in order of relative reliability and see where they flush out for most people.
there you go. this is how your posts sound:
put these in order of relative reliability and see how they are for most people. what claims match best.
rose
iris
sweet pea
violet
orchid
there you go. this is how your posts sound:
put these in order of relative reliability and see how they are for most people. what claims match best.
rose
iris
sweet pea
violet
orchid
Ok, letrs add them.
In terms of relative reliability for statements of belief about reality to form a belief off of.
Deity
thinking unversed
living universe
"lack belief" ... deny everything so we don't be dishonest and give them any ammo to use against atheism.
rose
iris
sweet pea
violet
orchid
nope. cb's example is valid and stands.
you are only giving considering "belief" and "proof."
the whole purpose (which you are missing entirely) of paths of religion and spirituality is the participation. not mental "ideas" not mental "beliefs." it is individual participation and experience. without that it is empty words on a page.
you are leaving out the most important part.
an analogy is dancing. the definition of dance is not the experience of dancing. describing dance is not the experience of dancing. history of dance, watching other people dance, none of those are dancing. the felt sense of dancing, the experience of dancing is the crux of what dancing is.
But until it is validated as true, the analogy proves nothing. Nobody denies the mystical experience as nobody denies the experience of dance. Your analogy of dance would only be valid if somebody claimed that Terpsichore was a real person who had 'inspired' people to dance. The evidence is that we respond to an instinct and I theorise that it is an evolved one. The same thing applies to the mystical experience. It's as good a theory as yours, anyway.
Cue..appeal to numbers, and possibly antiquity.
Dance does not exist except IN the dance. Without the dance there is no dance. It is not the experience of dance, mystical or not. There is no dance except IN the dance. Another analogy is Chess. You have the men, the checker boar. But Chess is the game. Without the game they are only pieces of wood.
nope. cb's example is valid and stands.
you are only giving considering "belief" and "proof."
the whole purpose (which you are missing entirely) of paths of religion and spirituality is the participation. not mental "ideas" not mental "beliefs." it is individual participation and experience. without that it is empty words on a page.
you are leaving out the most important part.
an analogy is dancing. the definition of dance is not the experience of dancing. describing dance is not the experience of dancing. history of dance, watching other people dance, none of those are dancing. the felt sense of dancing, the experience of dancing is the crux of what dancing is.
same with paths of religion and spirituality.
When somebody is playing baseball its ok to tell them that's not dancing.
There is no rational way to defend "we can make up anything we want" in forming a belief. Its just not rational.
I know you think these are somehow different states of mind about what it is, but they are not. The state of mind is a valence in favor or against what it is. Either way, no matter what its valence is, it is a definitive state of mind about it. That is what a belief IS irrespective of its valence.
Answer the question please. The fact that agnosticism and atheism refer to different subjects is established and not up for re-definition around here.
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