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To me spirituality is simply anything that lifts me up. To expand on that by example it is anything that brings me joy or a sense of oneness or respect or beauty in the universe or my immediate environment. I'm a very visual person. When I say the word 'universe' (and I find myself using that word a lot) I'm always actually visualizing the universe in color to I suppose the extent my human brain can visualize something like the universe. A vast blackness of space with millions of bright galaxies swirling within it.. Even saying the word 'universe' to myself fills me with a sort of calm and I can feel myself breathing differently. It's hard to really describe but it's a similar feeling to the one I get when I see my kids sleeping. The closest I can describe is similar to that feeling you get when you are deeply in love.
I'm an artist so the other things that pop into my mind a lot are particular scenes that I see that sort of flash by: A red mountain with red light reflecting off it; A white and blue mountain top on a clear day. An ocean just before sunrise and all the accompanying sounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin
Spirituality means pertaining to spirit. The word "spirit" can mean various things now, but it used to mean the non-physical part of a person. The assumption was that there is a non-physical part of a person, that continues after the physical body dies.
I believe that almost everything is beyond our physical senses. Our senses allow us to navigate in our particular aspect of "reality," but there is infinitely more beyond.
Atheists don't believe in gods, but most of them also don't believe in spirits, or spirit worlds beyond the world of our senses.
I think it is normal for humans to have various kinds of mystical feelings, which I think is what you are describing here. But it doesn't have to be related to visualization. Atheists can have these normal mystical feelings, I assume, but would rationalize them as being related to the "physical" world of the 5 senses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne
Actually one of the best responses in the thread. Thanks.
I haven't met you on the forum before I dont think. Welcome.
For all the aphantasics here, the bold in G4N's post can be validated by the Hubble telescope pictures. If you doubt there is infinitely more beyond our little blue dot, they should assuage any doubt!
For all the aphantasics here, the bold in G4N's post can be validated by the Hubble telescope pictures. If you doubt there is infinitely more beyond our little blue dot, they should assuage any doubt!
Mystic I know exactly what you are talking about.
This blew me away six years ago and still blows me away now:
A hundred million stars in just one small portion of the Andromeda Galaxy. Every point of light, a star.
We are very small indeed.
As Carl Sagan famously said, we live on nothing more than a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
This blew me away six years ago and still blows me away now:
A hundred million stars in just one small portion of the Andromeda Galaxy. Every point of light, a star.
We are very small indeed.
As Carl Sagan famously said, we live on nothing more than a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
True.
But a few people insist that this vast expanse is "God", rather than purely a vast expanse. That's Pantheism, plus several other ideologies as well.
It goes to show that even the vast physical reality of physical existence can have people creating mythical gods.
Our species remains sooooooooooooooo primitive. That's life of Earth.
The question of what spirituality means to me came up in another thread - so I'm starting a thread about it so as not to derail the other thread (thanks cb2008).
We have discussed this over on the A&A forum many times but it's been a while, and perhaps there are people who think atheists either can't be spiritual people or don't believe in spirituality, so let's discuss.
First of all, you can define yourself what you think spirituality means.
Honestly I don't feel qualified to define what it means in the traditional religious sense of the word, and being an atheist that wouldn't be how I would understand it. I can only speak for myself.
To me spirituality is simply anything that lifts me up. To expand on that by example it is anything that brings me joy or a sense of oneness or respect or beauty in the universe or my immediate environment. I'm a very visual person. When I say the word 'universe' (and I find myself using that word a lot) I'm always actually visualizing the universe in color to I suppose the extent my human brain can visualize something like the universe. A vast blackness of space with millions of bright galaxies swirling within it.. Even saying the word 'universe' to myself fills me with a sort of calm and I can feel myself breathing differently. It's hard to really describe but it's a similar feeling to the one I get when I see my kids sleeping. The closest I can describe is similar to that feeling you get when you are deeply in love.
I'm an artist so the other things that pop into my mind a lot are particular scenes that I see that sort of flash by: A red mountain with red light reflecting off it; A white and blue mountain top on a clear day. An ocean just before sunrise and all the accompanying sounds.
I only recently discovered that there is a condition called aphantasia which means that some people cannot visualize anything in their minds eye. I'm the opposite. I visualize things clearly. I plan things in my head. Anyway, this is a convoluted way of explaining that these thoughts bring me a sort of oneness with things that make me feel my place within the universe and it brings me joy.
Now I know other atheists that will dismiss all that as complete hogwash. Our recently passed poster called Grandstander always disagreed with me on this. He didn't believe spirituality was a thing at all. I do miss my arguments with him about it.
Please help me help our theist friends, by sharing your perspective on spirituality and how it fits with atheism (or not as the case may be).
If one adopts your definition of spirituality, then for them spirituality exists.
If I deem anything that "lifts me up" a form of spirituality, than my life is full of spirituality. As such, I would agree that spirituality exists.
If on the other hand one believes spirituality has something to do with the supernatural, or God, as it seems millions of people do, then spirituality really doesn't exist. Not for me anyway (or anyone else far as I'm concerned). Spirituality defined in this way is a belief, just like the belief in God, and as an atheist I suspect you would agree that spirituality defined in that way does not really exist.
For all the aphantasics here, the bold in G4N's post can be validated by the Hubble telescope pictures. If you doubt there is infinitely more beyond our little blue dot, they should assuage any doubt!
I wonder what sort of numbskull had any such doubt!
True.
But a few people insist that this vast expanse is "God", rather than purely a vast expanse. That's Pantheism, plus several other ideologies as well.
It goes to show that even the vast physical reality of physical existence can have people creating mythical gods.
Our species remains sooooooooooooooo primitive. That's life of Earth.
Exactly. It's that same wonder and awe, also fear, that our earliest ancestors began to appreciate many thousands of years ago. As we gazed up at the lights coming from the gods. The making of all manner of beliefs that make Pantheism seem reasonable and logical by comparison, but the awe and "lifting up" does NOT the truth of these matters make.
Our species remains very romantic, creative, and full of imagination just like always, and though this is a good thing in many ways, we're not always so good at not letting our romance, creativity and imagination get the better of us. AKA emotions.
If one adopts your definition of spirituality, then for them spirituality exists.
If I deem anything that "lifts me up" a form of spirituality, than my life is full of spirituality. As such, I would agree that spirituality exists.
If on the other hand one believes spirituality has something to do with the supernatural, or God, like I believe millions of people do, then it seems to me that spirituality really doesn't exist. Spirituality defined in this way is a belief, just like the belief in God, and as an atheist I suspect you would agree that spirituality defined in that way does not really exist.
You've sort of gotten down here to one of the things that bothers me so much about many religions, and perhaps particularly christianity -- that not only do "I" believe "this", but everyone else must believe it, too.
If on the other hand one believes spirituality has something to do with the supernatural, or God, as it seems millions of people do, then spirituality really doesn't exist. Not for me anyway (or anyone else far as I'm concerned). Spirituality defined in this way is a belief, just like the belief in God, and as an atheist I suspect you would agree that spirituality defined in that way does not really exist.
What if atheism is a privileged position?
What if spirituality is for those who need to believe in something beyond in order to keep hope alive, to survive trauma, heal mental pain, survive hardship and come out on the other end intact? The privileged are those that can manage life's uncertainties because they have resources. Many lack those resources.
It may seem merely delusional from your point of view. But even atheists delude themselves, we all do, to just live our life which is full of uncertainties.
Can you think of ways you delude yourself every day?
Do you invest your retirement money in the stock market, for instance? what happened in 2008?
If one adopts your definition of spirituality, then for them spirituality exists.
If I deem anything that "lifts me up" a form of spirituality, than my life is full of spirituality. As such, I would agree that spirituality exists.
If on the other hand one believes spirituality has something to do with the supernatural, or God, as it seems millions of people do, then spirituality really doesn't exist. Not for me anyway (or anyone else far as I'm concerned). Spirituality defined in this way is a belief, just like the belief in God, and as an atheist I suspect you would agree that spirituality defined in that way does not really exist.
Absolutely all fair comment.
Maybe the actual problem is that there is no word in the English language to describe how an atheist reacts to their environment. I can't even really describe it properly.
I think this is a common problem actually. The English language has several gaps like this.
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