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Old 01-04-2021, 05:28 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
48,610 posts, read 14,583,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithfullizhe View Post
Actually you can go a great deal further with it. Living in your imagination you can really do all sorts of things. Since you believe that no soul exists, just imagine paradise for all no matter who you are, hows that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
sorry, unlike most people, I have to actually look at what people are claiming.

atheism vs theism just isn't the best we can do out in the real world.
Don't pay any attention to him, he doesn't listen, he just spouts. In fact I Thought about your post and it seems to be very close to the 'atheist afterlife' which says that:

"We don't know whether there is an afterlife or not. But if there is, is it reasonable that any one religion is handing out entry tickets? No more reasonable (atheism would say) than a possible theoretical Creator has any particular interest in any one religion or its' personal god.

Any such possible afterlife would (more reasonably) be a natural thing open to all and (it follows) with no reward or punishment for our deeds. Nature and the universe has no interest in such things, even if they are vitally important to us, as they should be.
"

Or words to that effect. What that means is that (rather like UR) it makes the afterlife nothing to worry about and certainly not as a bribe or coercion to be used by one religion or another to try to suck us into the church.
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:17 PM
 
47,498 posts, read 30,055,951 times
Reputation: 6569
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Don't pay any attention to him, he doesn't listen, he just spouts. In fact I Thought about your post and it seems to be very close to the 'atheist afterlife' which says that:

"We don't know whether there is an afterlife or not. But if there is, is it reasonable that any one religion is handing out entry tickets? No more reasonable (atheism would say) than a possible theoretical Creator has any particular interest in any one religion or its' personal god.

Any such possible afterlife would (more reasonably) be a natural thing open to all and (it follows) with no reward or punishment for our deeds. Nature and the universe has no interest in such things, even if they are vitally important to us, as they should be.
"

Or words to that effect. What that means is that (rather like UR) it makes the afterlife nothing to worry about and certainly not as a bribe or coercion to be used by one religion or another to try to suck us into the church.
I resonate with your disdain for any such reward or punishment being dispensed in the afterlife. But there are a number of ways a 'natural' afterlife still could prove problematic. The Zoroastrian idea that whatever we have become will by virtue of our resonance/dissonance with other beings likely group us with those of similar resonant character. This vibrational perspective is robust since as best we can determine our entire Reality is based on vibrational manifestations of energy/mass/momentum. I suppose as long as you like yourself that would be an acceptable natural afterlife, but if not . . .

Another 'natural' possibility is that the ongoing quality and character of your afterlife could be based on the accumulated akashic record of your ancestral lineage and the ongoing development of your descendants. This is less robust, as we do not know that there is any genetically-based latent connection to our ancestors' or descendants' vibrational characters. Of course, if there is, this could prove problematic and could even provide motivation for any ancestral attempts to influence their descendants' character development.

I think I will let you think up other possibilities., but this was an interesting diversion from a depressing topic.
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:12 AM
 
24,294 posts, read 7,497,124 times
Reputation: 1826
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Don't pay any attention to him, he doesn't listen, he just spouts. In fact I Thought about your post and it seems to be very close to the 'atheist afterlife' which says that:

"We don't know whether there is an afterlife or not. But if there is, is it reasonable that any one religion is handing out entry tickets? No more reasonable (atheism would say) than a possible theoretical Creator has any particular interest in any one religion or its' personal god.

Any such possible afterlife would (more reasonably) be a natural thing open to all and (it follows) with no reward or punishment for our deeds. Nature and the universe has no interest in such things, even if they are vitally important to us, as they should be.
"

Or words to that effect. What that means is that (rather like UR) it makes the afterlife nothing to worry about and certainly not as a bribe or coercion to be used by one religion or another to try to suck us into the church.
Atheist have all kinds of beliefs about after life. There is no "very close to the 'atheist afterlife' ..." beliefs.

some atheist believe in reincarnation. Thats a form of after life.

so its nonsense about " very close to atheism ...". It makes us seem unified and without any beliefs in anything what so ever. And you know that what I say is true because you have to actively get what these beliefs are stopped. That alone exposes a types of atheism.

What you really means is "My [trans] kind of atheism follows [insert something about deny everything theology]"
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Boring suburb in the North
6,673 posts, read 2,720,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl3r View Post
To anyone who believes in an afterlife of eternal torment that non-believers will be subject to, how do you personally feel about that?
In a hypothetical situation where you were running the show, would you feel morally justified to condemn non-believers to an eternity of suffering?


When I was religious, I always found that to be one of the hardest things to square. I know many religious people don't believe in a hell or place of eternal torment like I'm depicting, so I'm not really targeting the question towards you if it doesn't match what you believe.


EDIT: Whoops, typo in the subject... maybe a mod can fix that
What if the tradition offers temporary torment and then a lifetime of reincarnation with diminished capability and circumstances for penance to redeem yourself? Would that satisfy your morals?
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:18 PM
 
729 posts, read 253,493 times
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Well according to scripture hell is permanent separation from God. With that means they will suffer a second death.
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:51 PM
Status: "Celebrating." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
30,013 posts, read 15,777,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Well according to scripture hell is permanent separation from God. With that means they will suffer a second death.
Fortunately, scripture is hardly gospel.

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Old 01-07-2021, 10:02 PM
 
6,972 posts, read 3,160,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
Well according to scripture hell is permanent separation from God. With that means they will suffer a second death.
Huh? According to what Scripture _____________ Please post.
Was dead Jesus permanently separated from God when dead Jesus went to hell __________Acts 2:27
I find at Revelation 20:13-14 that everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( <- meaning resurrected out of hell / grave )
Then, emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated biblical hell.
Resurrection is for both the righteous and unrighteous - Acts 24:15, and Not for the wicked.
Since the wicked are: destroyed forever - Psalm 92:7; Psalm 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22 and Jesus ' destroys Satan ' - Hebrews 2:14 B, and Satan ends up in ' second death ' Rev. 21:8, then ' second death ' stands for: destruction.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
7,024 posts, read 3,514,801 times
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Hang on - that doesn't make sense. In John 3:16 it says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life".

Correct me if I am wrong but Satan believes in Jesus, right? Therefore Satan will be spending eternity in Heaven with Jesus. Right?
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:15 PM
 
6,972 posts, read 3,160,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
if there is a soul (I don't believe one) knowing how I hurt somebody and knowing they will have that memory forever would hurt me for all eternity. That's as far I as I can go with justifying eternal hell.
Fret not, one does Not have to justify any eternal hell because temporary biblical hell comes to a final end.
After everyone in biblical hell (the grave) is ' delivered up ' according to Rev. 20:13-14 then emptied-out Bible hell is cast empty into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell or the temporary grave for mankind.
No eternal hell, but if one does Not ' repent ' then one could ' perish ' ( <- meaning be destroyed ) - 2nd Peter 3:9

Adam was a soul, Adam was a living soul - Genesis 2:7
In other words, Adam did Not possess a soul, Adam did Not have soul because ALL of Adam was a soul.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and ' returned ' back to non-life - Genesis 3:19.
No post-mortem penalty for dead Adam, No double jeopardy for dead Adam, just going back to where he started: dust.
Because of Jesus' ransom for us ( Matthew 20:28) we can have a resurrection.
In other words, we die because we sin and since we can't resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. - Jesus can and will - Rev. 1:18
Resurrect us with the opportunity for 'everlasting life'. Some to life in Heaven, and most resurrected to life on Earth.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:19 PM
 
6,972 posts, read 3,160,456 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Hang on - that doesn't make sense. In John 3:16 it says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life".
Correct me if I am wrong but Satan believes in Jesus, right? Therefore Satan will be spending eternity in Heaven with Jesus. Right?
Believing means more than just recognizing, but the putting of faith (confidence ) in Jesus.
Sinner Satan and his demons (Luke 4:41) know who Jesus is, but they do Not exercise any faith in Jesus.

We need to ' repent ' if we don't want to ' perish ' - 2nd Peter 3:9
Sinner Satan does Not repent so Satan will perish. Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
No 'wicked' person ( angelic or human ) gains everlasting life but are: 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22
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