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I have not read through this thread but will simply respond to the initial question.
God isn't the failure, Humans are.
How so?
The problem isn't whether or not humans failed, it's about us being punished in an extraordinarily cruel way for doing what were designed to do. If one believes we were created in the first place - which I do not.
The problem isn't whether or not humans failed, it's about us being punished in an extraordinarily cruel way for doing what were designed to do. If one believes we were created in the first place - which I do not.
It seems to me that christians love the concept of punishment.
What is the story of Adam and Eve about? Punishment.
What is the crucifixion about? Punishment.
What is the story of Lot about? Punishment.
The OT is full of it. They love it. Especially when it happens to others.
He has no active engagement in the world, he only created. I don't see that as any failure.
I agree with you. A creator God can do, or not do, anything He pleases with his own creation. For the creation to judge the creator’s actions or inactions is phenomenal hubris.
There is a case that can be made for a deistic god. For Trans to judge a deistic god as a failure because it does not intervene in the world is not a conclusion based on solid reasoning.
I agree with you. A creator God can do, or not do, anything He pleases with his own creation. For the creation to judge the creator’s actions or inactions is phenomenal hubris.
There is a case that can be made for a deistic god. For Trans to judge a deistic god as a failure because it does not intervene in the world is not a conclusion based on solid reasoning.
I won't call it intervening, but to me there is divine involvement or backing in carrying out the international proclaiming about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) on a vast global scale as never before in history just as Jesus said - Matthew 24:14.
Please notice the help given as mentioned at Revelation 14:6 ______________
The problem isn't whether or not humans failed, it's about us being punished in an extraordinarily cruel way for doing what were designed to do. If one believes we were created in the first place - which I do not.
Punished or saved because the first prophecy found at Genesis 3:15 is about: salvation.
False clergy teach about post-mortem punishment, double jeopardy but that is Not scriptural.
There was No after-death pain for Adam and there is none for anyone else.
Jesus taught ' sleep ' in death - John 11:11-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach ' sleep ' in death:
- Psalm 6:5; Psalm 13:3; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, it is 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ) that teaches pain after death.
Remember: Jesus informs us that MANY would come in his name but prove false - Matthew 7:21-23
Scripture teaches that 'there is going to' be a resurrection..... an awakening from death's deep sleep - Acts 24:15
... A creator God can do, or not do, anything He pleases with his own creation. For the creation to judge the creator’s actions or inactions is phenomenal hubris.
...
I would respectfully disagree. Yes I can judge a creator God or the 'creator' if you please. If the creator creates a mess up then I will most certainly judge the creator on his mess up. What make the creator so special that he can mess up and not be called out on it? I realize that some might say "who are you to judge the creator?" Well, let's look at it this way; is a lie not a lie because someone special told it? In other words. If I tell you a lie, it's a lie, right? But if God tells you a lie does it then become the truth? Understand that I am only trying to explain what I mean.
It seems to me that christians love the concept of punishment.
What is the story of Adam and Eve about? Punishment.
What is the crucifixion about? Punishment.
What is the story of Lot about? Punishment.
The OT is full of it. They love it. Especially when it happens to others.
Well, maybe false ' weed/tares ' Christians believe such nonsense, but genuine ' wheat ' Christians do not.
Adam and Eve knew breaking the Law carried with it the death penalty - Genesis 2:17.
In death there is only 'sleep ' -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Punishment or rather angels helping Lot to escape. Angels gave advance warning.
Lot's wife chose to disobey. No one forced her to look back and turn herself into a salt shaker.
Jesus' death balanced the scales of justice for us.
Plus, sinner Satan challenges all of us. - Job 2:4-5.
'Touch our flesh.... ' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
Genuine ' wheat ' Christians love the concept that there is ' healing ' coming for earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
Genuine ' wheat ' Christians love the concept that Jesus will undo all the damage sinners Satan and Adam caused us.
............." Well, let's look at it this way; is a lie not a lie because someone special told it? In other words. If I tell you a lie, it's a lie, right? But if God tells you a lie does it then become the truth? Understand that I am only trying to explain what I mean.
Not quite sure what is being conveyed ^ above ^ because as Titus 1:2 says: God can Not lie.
See also Hebrews 6:18
It was sinner Satan who told the first le - Genesis 3:4 - the first sin.
Sinner Satan gave birth to the lie, and that is why Jesus called Satan the father (life giver) to the lie - John 8:44
Well, maybe false ' weed/tares ' Christians believe such nonsense, but genuine ' wheat ' Christians do not.
Adam and Eve knew breaking the Law carried with it the death penalty - Genesis 2:17.
In death there is only 'sleep ' -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Punishment or rather angels helping Lot to escape. Angels gave advance warning.
Lot's wife chose to disobey. No one forced her to look back and turn herself into a salt shaker.
Jesus' death balanced the scales of justice for us.
Plus, sinner Satan challenges all of us. - Job 2:4-5.
'Touch our flesh.... ' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
Genuine ' wheat ' Christians love the concept that there is ' healing ' coming for earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
Genuine ' wheat ' Christians love the concept that Jesus will undo all the damage sinners Satan and Adam caused us.
Y'all love punishment. And revenge. Victor 1:1
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