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The 'objective truth' claimed there is that God Exists. That is highly debatable. Mystic tries to collar the argument by calling 'everything' (Reality) 'God'. But I would argue that it has to be intelligent to merit that title or we are talking unthinking natural forces of physics. "Nature. 2a: a creative and controlling force in the universe" (Websters)
We have done that one Soooo often .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Water
I'm not going down some semantic rabbit hole with you. My definition of a "god" is the common everyday definition, which everyone but you seems to know.
If you have any substance to contribute, please do so. I'm all (rabbit) ears!
Yes...as per the OP...THAT is the "objective truth"...God Exists.
And what could be more pertinent to ANYTHING that has to do with Theology/Theism/Atheism, etc?
Where many get messed-up is by the erroneous idea that "God" is limited to just the metaphorical and allegorical Deities of Religion or the Mythological Creatures found in ancient writings.
God is NOT limited to just that...and there are other conceptions & perceptions of "God".
The big impediment to understanding this is the influence of organized religion. That is so strong, you now have many with an indelible image in their head of God as some bearded old man that dwells up in the sky somewhere, with a bunch of harp-playing, naked, chubby, winged babies flying around him...as he calls the shots on what happens to people and the celestial bodies (mainly the Earth), as per whatever his volatile attitude is at the time.
And they are intransigent toward any other perceptions or manifestations of God.
There ARE objectively existing perceptions and manifestations of GOD.
But those many that are overly influenced by Religion (either by endorsing it or loathing it), get hung up into thinking these metaphorical and allegorical characters are actually what God literally is, and must be to be God.
It is the ignorance and compulsion to interpret Religious and Mythological writings literally that causes this...on both sides.
For some reason...many just cannot get away from literal interpretations of these books & writings, as if it is actual descriptions of people & things and accounts of occurrences.
They then establish their mindset based upon that...and their mind becomes closed & they end up tunnel visioned...especially relative to GOD.
In fact...that is the whole premise of the OP & this thread (and noted as a set-up by several)...hoping someone will proffer as "objective truth" a literal interpretation of a allegorical story about something that could not possibly happen. So, then the OP can get off bashing and insulting them. QuakerBaker so beautifully and brilliantly scuttled that!
I'm not going down some semantic rabbit hole with you. My definition of a "god" is the common everyday definition, which everyone but you seems to know.
If you have any substance to contribute, please do so. I'm all (rabbit) ears!
That is right.
His reasoning is sound. that's why I don't fight him to hard.
Calling it god or not is semantics. But semantics is not "science/engineering" and thus irrelevant to me. When we compare what may, or may not be, misidentified as god, it is consistent with observation.
If god existed, it would be fully self-evident, and not require people to constantly assert that it does exist.
For example, you don't see people going around saying "the sun exists", or "gravity exists" etc.
It is fully evident.
That is an objective truth from my religion (Pantheism)...that God (ALL) Exists. And ALL is as self-substantiating as the sun.
Matter of fact...ALL is the sun too, of course...and gravity.
ALL is all...anything and everything.
Do you understand that "God" is a title (not a name...nothing/nobody is named "God")...that can be assigned to that which merits such?
ALL is like Jehovah, or Allah, or Vishnu...they are all God Entities. Except that ALL objectively exists. And certainly merits the title "God".
And why that is a truth from my Religion.
It is fully evident.
That is an objective truth from my religion (Pantheism)...that God (ALL) Exists. And ALL is as self-substantiating as the sun.
Matter of fact...ALL is the sun too, of course...and gravity.
ALL is all...anything and everything.
Do you understand that "God" is a title (not a name...nothing/nobody is named "God")...that can be assigned to that which merits such?
ALL is like Jehovah, or Allah, or Vishnu...they are all God Entities. Except that ALL objectively exists. And certainly merits the title "God".
And why that is a truth from my Religion.
If god existed, it would be fully self-evident, and not require people to constantly assert that it does exist.
For example, you don't see people going around saying "the sun exists", or "gravity exists" etc.
what traits are you giving it?
maybe "god" is just that we are in a living thing. And that is clearly evident to enough people that its worth a deep dive. But we have to assume some background knowledge. Like figuring an angle out is self evident using sohcahtoa.
If you don't know you don't know ... then its purely speculation.
None of this is objective truth (in the sense of a scientifically validated fact). That God exists is a faith -claim (where not an obvious semantic fiddle) and 'man made from dust of the earth' is the 'science in the Bible' fallacy. No better than the 'knocking star' of the Quran being argued to be a pulsar.
One can only 'hope and pray' that people care about their views being true on fact and logic and will see through tripe like this and the (suspected) banking of the religion -enablers on the majority of browsers being the biased looking for confirmation is misplaced.
maybe "god" is just that we are in a living thing. And that is clearly evident to enough people that its worth a deep dive. But we have to assume some background knowledge. Like figuring an angle out is self evident using sohcahtoa.
If you don't know you don't know ... then its purely speculation.
I doubt that it is clearly evident to anyone. Wishful thinking is not "clearly evident". Neither is confusion, superstition or ignorance.
The level of naivete displayed by atheists/creationsts is neither illuminating, refreshing or even entertaining. It got old and stale quickly.
I see you've come back for more however!
We both don't believe in any case, but who really cares either way? Right?
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