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One of those someones was me. I find the random anecdotal claims from theists claiming " I don't know anyone believing from fear" to be hilarious. It is the very basis of the faith. It is why the faith exists . It is why the 2 largest sects, Catholicism and Orthodoxy , have confession, to purge the believer from the effects of sin and avoid hell. It is what evangelists use as a tool of recruitment. You see it from Christian posters here, hints that those disagreeing with them will learn the truth in hell. Many sects believe other Christian sects will go to hell for being different than them in belief . A very few, like Quakers and Mormons, don't dwell on hell, but they are way, way in the minority. If theists are becoming embarrassed by the concept of hell, well good for them. But to pretend it isn't a big factor in the Christian faith is nonsense.
The claims here otherwise simply don't match up with history.
There is another side, however. I do know that belief makes a lot of believers feel good and Justified. Makes the make effect in other religions, too. Of course Hellthreat and the offer of heaven is a very good stick and carrot and that's the Dogma, but I never actually met a Christian who mentioned fear of hell as a reason the believed.
That said I have seen in enough deconversion stories that it was at the bottom and the last thing to throw off when all the other reasons to believe had gone.
There's a good (rather long, but mustwatch) video on losing Faith where after all the reasons to believe had gone, Hellthreat remained until he saw that it was ridiculous.
I'll try to find it.
Not daily , no . The post Irkle responded to made the claim that Christians fear death, which then led to discussion about hell. Irkle and another theist have tried to downplay the importance of hell in Christianity, and I have just pointed out the fallacy that hell is just some minor unimportant part of Christian theology.
It's there even though, as I say it isn't evident as the factor why Christians believe, in my experience. But I do reckon that the Universal Redemption types who can't believe in hellthreat will find that the only reason to believe has gone. Pascal's wager entirely rests on hellthreat.
Not daily , no . The post Irkle responded to made the claim that Christians fear death, which then led to discussion about hell. Irkle and another theist have tried to downplay the importance of hell in Christianity, and I have just pointed out the fallacy that hell is just some minor unimportant part of Christian theology.
Indeed. That is the entire premise of the great commission, to preach the gospel so people go to heaven when they die.
It's there even though, as I say it isn't evident as the factor why Christians believe, in my experience. But I do reckon that the Universal Redemption types who can't believe in hellthreat will find that the only reason to believe has gone. Pascal's wager entirely rests on hellthreat.
But those who resonate with love find more than sufficient reason to believe.
The point is balance. Humans need a treats and meat. Plain and simple fact. So I understand the "the only reason is punishment" is a weak argument. But the fact we need it is not.
Its just that there is no god thing checking off our life experiences.
I mean look at the fall of Rome and the middle ages. We had knight's running around taking whatever they wanted. And nobody could stop them. People almost gave up in the dark ages. A little discipline sprinkled with some hope. Its sound.
But a god sent its son to save us from our "birth sins", that it gave us none the less, is just silliness today.
But those who resonate with love find more than sufficient reason to believe.
Well, when you find somebody like that, we can talk to them, because I haven't found anyone yet answering that description. I've seen a few who gush warm, pink, theistic Goo, but they turn nasty pretty quick if I ask them awkward questions. There are far, far more who do their religion no credit at all, posting in succession, garbage apologetics, crafty tricks and finally toxic abuse.
Yeah ... when we challenge some people's "lack of belief" they respond in the exact same manor.
When they say "we lack belief" but we except all beliefs" but then we question this "lack of belief" that is based on lack of information they turn like its a full moon.
Nate: more proof that atheist and theist have the exact same think types in them. The thought process is forming a belief "even lack belief" in some cases is a belief that the persons "Didn't make a compelling case", based on lack of information.
Last edited by Arach Angle; 02-18-2021 at 05:46 AM..
Not daily , no . The post Irkle responded to made the claim that Christians fear death, which then led to discussion about hell. Irkle and another theist have tried to downplay the importance of hell in Christianity, and I have just pointed out the fallacy that hell is just some minor unimportant part of Christian theology.
Fear mortality, i.e. that once you die, that is all she wrote.
I don't find love either empty or false, Salty, but perhaps my experiences with it differ from yours.
Love and a belief in a god are Universes apart. That you have connected them so absolutely and childishly demonstrates how outside rational thought your world lives.
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