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I must admit that I cannot see religion or belief as being of any benefit in my life. That's just me. But meeting a man who was a habitual offender (been to prison a few times apparently) who had 'found Jesus' led me to realize how it works for some. It gave this guy a focus and a passion. It was keeping him out of prison! His words were that Jesus doesn't stop him from doing naughty things, just stops him from doing bad things that gets him in prison. It was as though he had a joy in his life. More power to him.
So when cb stated that slaves who had a pretty miserable life found the strength to get through via Christianity, it made sense to me. Maybe these people or anyone for that matter, not just those in hard times, have something I don't. Maybe, I don't know. But then, I have other passions so maybe I have something they don't. Maybe in my case, the view of the world as an amazing place, filled with wonder and horror is my fulfilment. A slave on the other hand might find it difficult to see the wonders.
Sorry, going a bit off the topic of biryani.
That is what I call a place of privilege. The world of enslaved people lived in was a house of horror. To believe there is another life beyond that and Jesus will deliver them to it saved them and did deliver them freedom, and they themselves played a large part in it. We tell stories to ourselves all the time and it is a mechanism of our brain and mind that helps us do things beyond what we would normally do or think we are capable of.
Vedantam, in his book Useful Delusions (the youtube link i posted) talks about the idea of a nation. National boundaries are arbitrary, they change all the time, and new nations are carved out of old ones. Yet we believe our nation to be real, dear to us, and we will die for it. We tell ourselves stories of greatness about its founding in-spite of the awful things like mass genocide we did to get it. We rationalize, we believe, and live and die by that belief.
Faith in god is no different.
As is faith in Biryani.
It's just not true, not true in biblical times, not true in recent times.
You only imagine every white person to be a monster, and thus, owned slaves, and thus, treated said slaves worse than dogs beating them and enjoying it.
You really think God never took a person to put him in slavery to benefit that person into becoming something greater?
You think no slaves ever became family?
You think there were no slaves greatly hurt when separated from their owners?
You have a very low bar looking at humanity.
God looked down on Israel , some 70 people if I remember correctly, and he took those people to become a nation born in slavery.
Look at what came from that.
Did you know that the bride of Jesus is a black woman?
Moses had two black wives, but the greatest song of songs, the greatest song is written to a black woman.
That is what I would be trying to figure out out, why is the bride black?
Song of songs
I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
6Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
7Tell me, O thou whom my soul loveth, where thou feedest, where thou makest thy flock to rest at noon: for why should I be as one that turneth aside by the flocks of thy companions?
I mean if there is really a biblical discussion pertaining to blacks and how might their slavery might have some role in the bible, shouldnt we begin by asking ourselves what role blacks played in the bible.
Moses was born Egyptian, and when he learned he would be the Messiah, he was cast out of Egypt. Moses had been the general of the Egyptian army.
Ethiopia had been coming up against Egypt and there had been a rule of Black pharoahs spoken of in the bible.
What role did the black Pharoahs play?
When Ethiopia was about to conquer Egypt swarming them on every side, Moses came up with a plan to secretly take his army through a place that could not be traveled because of the amount of snakes, a place you couldn't get horses through, but if you could go through there, you could bypass the Ethippian army and arrive in Capitol city while their army was still beating the wall of Egypt.
Moses had his calvary put baskets on the horses and they put mongoose in the baskets so that when they came up where the snakes were, the mongoose killed the snakes.
So Moses strode right enter the Capitol city of Ethiopia right up to the palace at just a time when the queen of Ethiopia was standing on her terrace and the both of them fell in love.
One cant help but wonder if Moses really had two wives, because the story of obtaining both wives are the same story.
Moses got his second wife by going through the shepherds getting to Zipporah, same story with the queen of Ethiopia.
The story of Moses and his black wife/wives, it could give somebody an idea that just maybe blacks were purposely connected with Moses in the first Exodus, and they just maybe connected with Israel in the second exodus.
When is the second exodus?
It began in 1948.
A whole cycle that began on October 31 1517.
Israel was in Egypt 430 years, slaves for 400 years, and cycle repeated itself beginning in 1517.
Why?
400 year rule of the Otterman Turks to the same day, October 31 1917 when General Allanbe began to take Israel back from the Orterman.
Is it a coincidence that blacks started coming out of real hatred about that same time?
Biblically, I dont see where else you could connect black slavery to God or the bible to throw in Covid.
Would you hope your children and grandchildren will have the privilege of being enslaved and live as slaves for the next 200 years, with masters raping their women, selling their children, and brutalizing them? Do you have such hopes and dreams for them. I hope those dreams never come true for your sake. But tell me how you feel.
Yup, that's how I've understood it in my limited, mostly online, conversations with indigenous Americans. Sometimes they use the term NDN to distinguish from people from the Indian subcontinent. Native American is seen as more of a manufactured feel-good term.
I have seen "First Nations" used in the USA also, the same as in Canada. I think most people who fall into those categories tend to identify themselves with their specific nation, though. Algonquin, Onondaga, Navajo, or, Tsalagi, the latter being the nation of our own R&S poster, ptsum, etc.
Off topic? Unless you can connect Native Americans to Biryani.
That is what I call a place of privilege. The world of enslaved people lived in was a house of horror. To believe there is another life beyond that and Jesus will deliver them to it saved them and did deliver them freedom, and they themselves played a large part in it. We tell stories to ourselves all the time and it is a mechanism of our brain and mind that helps us do things beyond what we would normally do or think we are capable of.
Vedantam, in his book Useful Delusions (the youtube link i posted) talks about the idea of a nation. National boundaries are arbitrary, they change all the time, and new nations are carved out of old ones. Yet we believe our nation to be real, dear to us, and we will die for it. We tell ourselves stories of greatness about its founding in-spite of the awful things like mass genocide we did to get it. We rationalize, we believe, and live and die by that belief.
Faith in god is no different.
As is faith in Biryani.
The lives of the slaves in the American south 200 years ago were widely varied. Certainly some lived in a house of horror, and the reality was that they were owned, and the owner could do as he pleased with them. However, daily life wasn't horrific for every one of them. Sally Hemmings' children lived pretty good lives at Monticello. Some owners left specific instructions that slave families were not to be separated. Some were freed when the owner died. Some others were beaten regularly, had their children sold, toiled at hard labor, and lived in shacks.
To say they turned to Christianity is awfully simplified. They had no choice. Some of the large plantations even had chapels where the owner preached on Sundays. Generally, they did not get to choose to go to some other church of their choice. I can't remember details now, but I believe I read that as a rule, they were not permitted to practice the religions their ancestors had brought over from Africa.
Yup, that's how I've understood it in my limited, mostly online, conversations with indigenous Americans. Sometimes they use the term NDN to distinguish from people from the Indian subcontinent. Native American is seen as more of a manufactured feel-good term.
I have seen "First Nations" used in the USA also, the same as in Canada. I think most people who fall into those categories tend to identify themselves with their specific nation, though. Algonquin, Onondaga, Navajo, or, Tsalagi, the latter being the nation of our own R&S poster, ptsum, etc.
The ones I've known referred to themselves as "Indians," or part of the "tribe." They lived on "The Rez." Of course, the older ones, who had experienced racial prejudice as bad as the African Americans in the South, resented everyone around them, while the younger ones get along with everybody.
The lives of the slaves in the American south 200 years ago were widely varied. Certainly some lived in a house of horror, and the reality was that they were owned, and the owner could do as he pleased with them. However, daily life wasn't horrific for every one of them. Sally Hemmings' children lived pretty good lives at Monticello. Some owners left specific instructions that slave families were not to be separated. Some were freed when the owner died. Some others were beaten regularly, had their children sold, toiled at hard labor, and lived in shacks.
To say they turned to Christianity is awfully simplified. They had no choice. Some of the large plantations even had chapels where the owner preached on Sundays. Generally, they did not get to choose to go to some other church of their choice. I can't remember details now, but I believe I read that as a rule, they were not permitted to practice the religions their ancestors had brought over from Africa.
Would you be happy being born to a mother raped by her master? None of us would. Our spirits yearn for freedom, thatis our nature. Nobody wants to be a slave, not the slaver, not the devil who whips them, not the slave catcher, nobody. We can tell all kinds of pretty stories about the lives of slaves and Black people, watch Gone with the Wind, and that makes us forgive ourselves and forget the violence that is the foundation of this great country.
They were not easily given their faith. The were barred from learning to read and write and discover for themselves that the bible says how sinful the white people were for enslaving them and how they are free. They were whipped and tortured if caught reading or writing. The churches they built were burnt down, as they are still to this day. They had to congregate in secret. Black Christianity is a thing of its own, and Black people did bring their African soul with them and made Jesus their own. Henry Luis Gates is professor of history at Harvard and his research is sound. Who is any of us to judge how their faith gave them strength and hope and believe themselves as free, not slaves.
Does all this mean only one poster is qualified to address American slavery and black churches?
It's improbable that every slave owner throughout the colonies and then the States over several centuries treated their slaves identically bad. Also isn't it probable that most of the slave owners were religious given the dates that slavery was practiced in America? And it's probable that during that time period slaves would turn to religion as atheism for example wasn't much of a thing.
If slaves were not allowed to practice their own religion what choices did they have but Christainity? Would they even have hear about Judaism, Islam or Hindu ?
A very dark period in your country's history and choices were extremely limited to those slaves. They were offered a single choice and took it. In my own country slavery lasted a lot shorter period of time, mostly as there was no labour intensive work for them without cotton. No control over slaves if you send them across the country to harvest beaver pelts.
That is what I call a place of privilege. The world of enslaved people lived in was a house of horror. To believe there is another life beyond that and Jesus will deliver them to it saved them and did deliver them freedom, and they themselves played a large part in it. We tell stories to ourselves all the time and it is a mechanism of our brain and mind that helps us do things beyond what we would normally do or think we are capable of.
Vedantam, in his book Useful Delusions (the youtube link i posted) talks about the idea of a nation. National boundaries are arbitrary, they change all the time, and new nations are carved out of old ones. Yet we believe our nation to be real, dear to us, and we will die for it. We tell ourselves stories of greatness about its founding in-spite of the awful things like mass genocide we did to get it. We rationalize, we believe, and live and die by that belief.
Faith in god is no different.
As is faith in Biryani.
Most slaves were never delivered from slavery. They died slaves.
Would you hope your children and grandchildren will have the privilege of being enslaved and live as slaves for the next 200 years, with masters raping their women, selling their children, and brutalizing them? Do you have such hopes and dreams for them. I hope those dreams never come true for your sake. But tell me how you feel.
Why you so angry about it?
There are many people who had ancestors under slavery, but they dont let it effect them hat much. That much hate must effect you and everyone around you.
Who was the last person in your family that were enslaved?
Where were your family living under slavery at?
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 04-03-2021 at 05:37 PM..
There are many people who had ancestors under slavery, but they dont let it effect them hat much. That much hate must effect you and everyone around you.
Who was the last person in your family that were enslaved?
Where were your family living under slavery at?
I am not angry, so dont read into my post what is not there.
Empathy is a common human emotion. Tragedy does not have to be your own to feel the pain of those suffering from injustice. I am not black and there is no slave history in mine.
As a human being and a member of the community of other human beings my sympathies lie with American Black people and other POC.
Why is this strange to you?
Why do you not feel it?
Are you white? Did your family own slaves or traded in slavery? Do you feel shame because of it?
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