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What exactly is the purpose of a prayer at the start of a meeting? What need specifically does it serve that requires a prayer at the start of say a HOA meeting. Can a group of people not conduct a meeting without the guidance of any certain diety?
If the prayer is neutral and not represent any one group then why not be truly neutral and be from a group in which non of the meeting attendees belong? Like a Inuit one on North Florida?
I've attended countless meetings in my life including ones that decided the location and contractors for a multimillion dollar public building . None of them started with a prayer and yet the meetings did not disolve into bedlam and chaos.
How is strarting a public meeting with a prayer, especially one to a deity not be exclusive rather than inclusive? What does it achieve other than a selfishness of pushing the belief of a God or gods upon others?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
The answer is simple -- it's showing off.
And signal to all other believers who are not in their gang.
It didn't go over very well when I was sitting at a table with several others getting ready to eat and they had to do a christian prayer...and then I decided to give a sort of Buddhist blessing.
I like getting a good loud video on youporn and play along with dinner prayer
Muslims wont just be uncomfortable it will be a disrespectful kind of worship for them. It is not public performance it is a personal spiritual act done in a sacred place. I don't know how others feel, but for me there only one god, the one in my head and heart. So any prayer is to my god.
Some people feel beginning an important meeting where tasks need to be accomplished with a blessing is a good thing. It makes them feel empowered.
That atheists fight prayers at such a meeting is not because they are worried about offending people of other religion. They fight it because it goes against their belief - belief that there is no god. I don't know why they cannot just step outside for the few minutes of the prayer. Or just plug their ears.
Or just show some tolerance for community.
Oh I don't know. Maybe those who want to pray should step outside and do there stuff in private. No?
It is actually Christians who are imposing themselves on others.
On the underlined, that's an interesting perspective - one I can appreciate. Where, for what my opinion is worth, is where God belongs.
To compromise, those who want to take over the moment with their desire to pray, should in my opinion, respectfully and humbly ask the general gathering for permission to conduct their ceremony of prayer. That would be acceptable to me and who would refuse such a request?
P.S. There is no belief that there is no god. But then you already know that.
Nor did they intend for religion to be a part of public life. As I said in another post, are you good with a Muslim bringing out his prayer cloth, kneeling and bowing toward Mecca before a meeting? Are you good with a Buddhist, Hindu or pagan prayer before a meeting? Actually, I kinda would like to see that myself. Along with some chanting and bells. Now THAT would be cool.
I forget who, but the poster that pointing out that jesus actually was all about "police your first" hit the nail on the head.
Theist need more instruction on freedom of religion than most atheist I know. Freedom From Religion, although over laps freedom of, is just on the other side of just separation of church and state. But that is debatable also.
It makes absolutely no different what the Founding Fathers intended. The only thing that matters is what the Supreme Court said the last time the ruled on the issue. The Supreme Court Justices are the final arbiters.
Do you believe the Supreme Court makes laws? Or interprets them? Do you know the difference?
Well, the Founding Fathers weren't uniformly Christian, and certainly wouldn't conform to what modern evangelicals would call Christian. Madison, the author of the Constitution, had fought and won against a Virginia law that forced non-Anglican clergy to pay a punitive tax. Jefferson wrote and printed a version of the Bible that snipped out passages that he thought were baloney. A very large percentage of the Constitutional Convention were either deists or nature worshipers.
So the notion that the Founding Fathers were trying to implement a quasi-religious state is not just revisionist history, but it's downright dishonest. While many were men of faith, they had a very clear idea of what could happen in a religiously pluralistic environment if some kind of neutrality to religious faith was not clearly established.
No, they weren't. And they gave the right to the states to choose. They didn't want the Feds walking all over us. Some states were very Christian, one state in particular was very atheistic. The point is that we were designed as a union of states. And no state was more important than any other, and no one religion or lack thereof, was more important than any other.
No, they weren't. And they gave the right to the states to choose. They didn't want the Feds walking all over us. Some states were very Christian, one state in particular was very atheistic. The point is that we were designed as a union of states. And no state was more important than any other, and no one religion or lack thereof, was more important than any other.
And that was 234 years ago. And to hold that opinion today means that you condone slavery and Jim Crow, just for starters. I guess you also don't believe that we are "one nation".
And that was 234 years ago. And to hold that opinion today means that you condone slavery and Jim Crow, just for starters. I guess you also don't believe that we are "one nation".
And ... BaptistFundie failed to include the fact (which he's been reminded of repeatedly) that the 14th Amendment, ratified by 3/4 of the states in 1868 (over 150 years ago) made it abundantly clear that all of the provisions of the Constitution, including all of the Amendments, applied to all the government entities in the United States. from the federal government, down to the states, county, and local governing bodies.
We've improved a lot of things since the Constitution was written. We even let women vote now.
And ... BaptistFundie failed to include the fact (which he's been reminded of repeatedly) that the 14th Amendment, ratified by 3/4 of the states in 1868 (over 150 years ago) made it abundantly clear that all of the provisions of the Constitution, including all of the Amendments, applied to all the government entities in the United States. from the federal government, down to the states, county, and local governing bodies.
We've improved a lot of things since the Constitution was written. We even let women vote now.
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