Submitting to God’s will — as an atheist I finally get it!

[Bhandharayam]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Don't overthink it. We ONLY control how we respond to "whatever" happens in our lives.

I agree with both your points if you are trying to say that we cannot control the way we are treated based on our well controlled behaviours. However just something to think about, what happens in our lives involves things which we may not be able to do that we would have done.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Not trying to burst any bubbles here, but we are not in control of what happens to us, but we ARE in control of how we respond to what happens to us. It is the latter that determines our physical fate, but more importantly, determines our spiritual character and ultimate fate in the next stage.

Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15

That just doesn't make sense Mystic. doesn't a response to what has uncontrollably happened to us set up another uncontrolled thing that happens to us or to someone else?

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Don't overthink it. We ONLY control how we respond to "whatever" happens in our lives.

Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15

but that response can sends someone else life out of control.

Try to take this in without overthinking the possibilities. The only things we control are our responses and our intentions and desired outcomes. If we are NOT intending to send anyone else's life out of control, it is NOT on us.

[Basiliximab]

Originally Posted by Jill_Schramm

Interestingly, I realized this when I was reading about who fears death the most — the religious or the atheists. According to one study I read (I will try to dredge it up if I have time later), the people who feared death the least were the extremely religious and the atheists, while those who feared it the most tended to be in the middle of the religiosity spectrum. I wonder if this is partly because both the extremely religious and the atheists have completely submitted themselves to God’s will, the only difference being that, while the religious understand this attitude as submitting to God’s will, the atheist sees it as submitting to a deterministic reality.

Thoughts?

Yes, it appears you got it just about right. God's will is whatever happens here. Those who have strong faith (I equate these to your extremely religious) trust that whatever transpires in their lives comes from the hand of God (though it may involve sin, such as when criminals stole all of Job's livestock) and that ultimately, though it may not seem that way at that moment it will work to their good.

For your fear of death example, when I was an atheist I didn't fear it because I considered it to be not existing anymore; as in, I didn't know what was going on before I was born so how could I fear what I won't know--death would be the same kind of thing as the state prior to existing. Now as a believer, I have a admittedly sinful longing for death (since while I'm still here God has a purpose for me, so I am in a way denigrating that); with my husband's recent unexpected passing life really has lost a lot of what it meant to me before. Things do not seem very joyful. This world is just a mess with the evil one's constant influence (of course it has always been that way; it would appear that you just get used to the one level you're at when you get to a certain age and then for it to get way out of line with that--that's the part you just can't take anymore). So I long now for my heavenly home and have absolutely no fear of death. Look forward to it, rather.

[arleigh]

I would invite you to visit the sites that people share their life after death experiences.

[Arizona Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Jill_Schramm

I grew up in a conservative Lutheran (Missouri Synod) church and home. In college for a while I participated in a fundamentalist, born-again group. One of the things I could never understand was how do you submit to God’s will? How do you know the difference between God’s will, your will, your pastor’s will, and society’s will (conventional wisdom/what you “should” do)? Absolutely no one could tell me how to figure that out. At the most I got platitudes like: “You need to open your heart and mind to God and then you will know.” But I didn’t know. It was always a complete muddle.

Since I deconverted many years ago, I have become a deterministic atheist. That’s right — I don’t believe in free will. Or rather I believe that the experience of free will is a very strong illusion. But recently I realized that there is really little difference between my position and that of the strictest, most deterministic Calvinism (without the hell or heaven). Now I know that submitting to God’s will is merely “submitting to reality” “accepting what is” which we all do anyway (more or less reluctantly).

Interestingly, I realized this when I was reading about who fears death the most — the religious or the atheists. According to one study I read (I will try to dredge it up if I have time later), the people who feared death the least were the extremely religious and the atheists, while those who feared it the most tended to be in the middle of the religiosity spectrum. I wonder if this is partly because both the extremely religious and the atheists have completely submitted themselves to God’s will, the only difference being that, while the religious understand this attitude as submitting to God’s will, the atheist sees it as submitting to a deterministic reality.

Thoughts?

Did you know that, as a deterministic atheist, you can still be a Cristian without agreeing with the statement "God exists"?



I know, sounds contradictory - - but it isn't. Try a Christian theologian named Paul Tillich for a brilliant philosophical analysis of God and existence.